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https://www.forthedeskdrawer.com/p/the-meaning-of-charlie-kirk?r=333r8&utm_medium=ios&triedRedirect=true Good article on the subject at hand, I think.

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Eyewitness accounts are not necessarily true. A book containing descriptions of miracles isn’t evidence that these miracles did happen. None of these fantastic events were noted down by the Romans or anyone else at the time, despite their extraordinary nature. Hindu texts describe witnesses claiming they saw Krishna lift up a mountain. A book saying witnesses saw this god do it is not evidence that such an event occurred.

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It’s against the rules because the FA have taken a dim view of it…

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There was always a likelihood that the attacker was a leftist loon, given the nature of the victim, but you were speaking with certainty from the off. Pick a likely candidate and you will have a high chance of being right, but it was never 100% certainty for those without knowledge at the moment of the original post.

Moreover, this is not exactly a new phenomenon in the USA. Radicalised idiots have attacked others before. Be it the Hortmans, the Israeli embassy staff and the Pelosis (I remember the sanctimonious right having a good chuckle at that one). The issue isn’t one of evil, godless atheist Marxists. The problem is that humans are tribal and recent events, combined with the toxic nature of the internet, has made people demonise those not of their tribe. The killer of Charlie Kirk seems to be one of those people, but he and those of his ideology are not alone. Vehement rightists, leftists, Islamists and more seem to use their certain position as being the flagbearers of right from wrong to attack others.

Society is becoming polarised now and it’s sad. We can argue about the magnitude of blame for any ‘side’, but many across the spectrum are playing into it. Yes, Deerey jumped the gun when his Mormon background came out. I think that was motivated by an irritation of your cast iron certainty at a time of uncertainty. Your posts here seem to be more about attacking others, to sow division, in the manner of many that has caused the tensions in society. The chaos and misery you regularly reference is being caused by this.

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It’s an interesting one. Free speech would say Vince should be able to do it, but the FA have historically taken a dim view of such matters. I believe Calvo-Garcia got fined for his shirt with a Basque flag that he revealed after scoring at Wembley in 1999. This was more brazen.

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Rudyboy wrote:

Why are we bothering with this? Fact is if it was the other way round Cods fans would be laughing their ***** off!

I don’t think gills should be censored.

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Riverman

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Deereyme66 wrote:

Bpg, all I’m reading from you on this is click bait, unsubstantiated propaganda,division and provocation. Makes a mockery of his assassination and doesn’t seem very Christian to me. You’re just confirming what Redmisttorps was pointing out.

This whole thread has read like the motivation is primarily to lump anyone who disagrees with bpg as one of the same, make out that anyone who disagrees with him are all extremists and preach hellfire and damnation once more.

USA is a country with problems in mental health treatment, polarisation and gun culture. It is not limited to one side, but that is all we have here. Smacks of an agenda, where the primary concern is to attack others for differences in opinion, just like the other right wing talking heads frothing for civil war and wanting Democrats considered a terrorist group. Even though prominent Democrats have all condemned the killing and there is no evidence that the perpetrator was a Dem. Many of the far-left hate Dems as well. What needs to happen is a cooling and deradicalisation of rhetoric and ideas, but it won’t happen because too many are vested in finger wagging at the other side and not thinking they have a part to play.

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RedMistTorpsFist

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My worldview in supporting free speech is destroying free speech?

You think everyone who disagrees with you is an extremist and of the same thought, which is one of the problems right now. A polarised society where people would rather wag fingers than self-reflect.

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Some fine ‘free speech’ going on the right currently. No matter that many Dems have come out against this awful killing, they need to be shut down for free speech:

https://x.com/realmattforney/status/1965855263623413791

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How does it destroy my comments? I have made no comment in support of them and said that I had no problem with Kirk airing his views in his debates, even if I find them awful. It should be pretty obvious to anyone that I don’t agree with those who say disagreeable voices should be shut down, within reason (e.g. I don’t think extremists, be they Islamist or neo-Nazi, should be able to incite actual violence).

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I an not a far left Marxist. I don’t like these ‘right on’ campus progressive types who censor. Their view is not my worldviwq, but you conflate to make out everyone against you is in bad faith and of the same. As for free speech, the right love whining about those who hurt their feelings too.

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There is a likelihood that the killer will be a leftist (however, you regularly conflate leftists with liberals and anyone who isn’t a Christian rightist) aimed Christian beliefs. The recent Minneapolis shooting was committed by someone with Nazi sympathies, a right winger killed the Hortmans, so it’s not all on one side. Your comments smack of an agenda to attack others than to try and understand the problem. I am not denying far left problems, they do exist, but we cannot condemn without evidence. Which we don’t yet have.

Like I said, Kirk wasn’t without his far right enemies, and they have a history of violence.

I wonder who he means by serving those who killed him. I also wonder why atheists would be so bothered about who killed Jesus too, since they are apparently the only ones with bones to pick with him. Hmmm. The problems don’t just lie among those you dislike.

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I had no problem with Kirk airing his views in debates. It doesn’t mean I have to like his opinions. People are allowed to think differently to you. That’s the glory of free speech.

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The problem isn’t with Marxism or the far left, specifically, it’s a problem with radicalisation. We don’t know the identity of the killer yet. Charlie Kirk wasn’t popular among the anti-Israel neo-Nazi groups, who are not being radicalised by Marxist professors. They are the sort of people who would consider killing others, but we don’t know yet, so we cannot say with any certainty. It could be someone to the right of Kirk, it could be some Marxist, we don’t know. The first attempted assassin of Trump was a Qanon rightist, rightists killed the Hortmans, this isn’t some specific left wing problem and jumping on it to make it such is political gamesmanship at this stage.

I didn’t like Kirk, but my vehement disagreement with his awful beliefs does not mean I don’t feel sadness at his passing. He had a young kid who will be scarred by this. There are some sick, mostly leftist people, celebrating his death on social media. They may be the online few, and it’s important to remember that, but these are the leftists who need criticising. Not making out America’s gun problem is some Marxist issue.

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That certainly helped me out. I predicted 1-1 for Eastleigh, so that would have been a roll for me if it hadn’t have been abandoned.

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BobbyGmeister wrote:

Why should we be punished on goal difference? Having said that, there’s no way of knowing that 2-1 would be the final score.

Having to replay the Eastleigh match is ridiculous when only seconds remained but fair play on the quick(ish) decision on the Wealdstone match.

Agreed, but it’s the rules. Same thing happened with that Buxton game 2 years ago.

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BobbyGmeister

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Credit to the Wealdstone board. Hope Sam Cox was given a stern talking to by their directors for that.

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TheJuryeffsOut, BobbyGmeister

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If what Andy has said is true, it’s a forfeit and give them a 3 point deduction to prevent repeats.

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BigLeftToe

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Abandoned.

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Iron Age wrote:

If you want an example of how totalitarianism takes control look no further than Trump’s USA and project 25, it’s well under way.

Memes stop people getting into the country, Trump taking over DC and threatening other states’ rights with the National Guard, sucking up to Putin (whose alliance with tyranny was evident this week with the show of force with China and North Korea), raging at Stephen Colbert for comedy (whether you like the humour or not), stopping trans people from serving in the military and punishing companies or research bodies for wrongthink. Trump’s America is certainly looking more authoritarian. I hope JD Vance gives us another lecture on our values, while eroding freedoms back in his own country.

Also, a lot of the cringeworthy arse kissing around the cabinet and taking at least partial ownership of private companies like Intel sounds more like Marxism to me than anything evil socialists Obama and Biden did.

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TwoWrights

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The current government have nothing to do with Linehan’s shameful arrest. The police are following legislation that predates the government by 2 decades and is something out of date. I agree that it is too much, and people like Linehan should not be arrested for opinions that make others uncomfortable, but it isn’t dictator Starmer shutting up free speech. Something needs to be done about it though. The online world has brought us challenges in dealing with issues like incitement, but more leeway is needed.

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TwoWrights

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Indeed. I have no desire for a Yorkshire absorption, we are Lincs, but in terms of accent and people, I find Scunthonians more like Donny people than the south of the county in particular.

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A sad day for the club. RIP Barrie.

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Sanfran49

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It may pain you as a Hullensian, but my formative memories are more of going into Yorkshire than into anywhere south of Lincoln in Lincolnshire. Shopping – we’d go to Meadowhell or the Yorkshire outlet in Donny. Holidays for me were to Cleethorpes (Lincs, I know) or Brid.

The people who ask if I am from Yorkshire make my eyebrows raise a bit, but it has happened a lot. A few years ago I was in Folkestone and got asked it from someone born in Leeds. When I said no, North Lincolnshire, they said “might as well be Yorkshire.”

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There’s a lot of bubbling anger in Britain right now, but it’s important to remember that it will remain. She’ll carry on through it all.

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Deereyme66

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