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Iron is the most abundant element, by mass, in the Earth. There’s more iron than other elements if you include the mass of iron nuclei from compounds or alloys, but by element (i.e. pure iron) it is minuscule compared to oxygen, carbon or silicon. The number of oxygen atoms dwarf iron, but is so much lighter, so iron has a lot more of mass percentage when it comes to the Earth’s mass distribution.

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Is there a weighting depending on how many times you say it? Say it three times he appears to spread some misinfo? Say it five times and he doxxes you? Say it ten times and he gives you a death threat?

2 users thanked author for this post.

BigLeftToe, ironingboard

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Since Dave came on here to create a fake account, pretending to be someone else and spreading his nonsense, it does make you wonder who was behind those burners on twitter.

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Fair point, well made.

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The person above is not ‘Stuart’.

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I understand I was too snide in the past in my own response, but this is really wearying. I wasn’t trying to be high and mighty, I was making a reflection where I understood my past conduct should have been better.

Like I say, I get that what is going on is tragic for all involved. I get that many will feel emotional over it, and not all are the bad actors. What I think is that it is Hamas who bears a lot of the blame for forcing a war and now breaking a ceasefire. I don’t like the idea of Israel targeting the south without plans for civilians; the evacuations from the north made sense for this, but now what? Egypt should take them in too, so they need some blame here. It was Hamas who started the conflict with their evil, Israel had no choice but to respond for their own safety and we would have done the same, as would all other nations.

Disagree with me, fine. Like I said, I was too dismissive of some concerns over the situation from you, and others. I accept that, but my major point above was to essentially admit that I had made errors in how I responded and reacted. Ultimately neither of us are going to make a difference, so I don’t see the need for terse exchanges. It’s a difference of opinion, we can’t agree on everything, and both of us recognise that the situation is a tragedy and horrible.

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Heath wrote:

And what exactly did you try? Your position hasn’t changed so don’t get all mighty because you’ve written yet another of your “reasonable” essays.

I see. The issue which makes me evil is that I don’t agree with you. I am not going to apologise for a different opinion and it is not reasonable to do so.

Though, I notice more snideness, yet it will be pinned on me no matter what.

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I agree, though every war since has had civilian conflict, including ones we have got involved in. Including operations against ISIS, which I felt were justified. The alternative was to let ISIS rule over others with genocide and theocratic rule, while seemingly inspiring attacks in our own countries. For Israel, Hamas posts a similar risk to their own civilians, especially given Hamas continuously say they won’t stop attacking them with pogroms, terror and missiles. Israel can and should do a lot more, but are justified in defending itself.

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Well, I tried. I do note nothing was said about Hamas’s ceasefire breaking though. Israel aren’t going to accept Hamas trying to kill their citizens. If Hamas are going to continue with their war with terror and missile attacks it will lead to a response. Questions over how the response occurs are valid, but a response will be the case all the same and no other nation would just accept it.

Maybe the Allies shouldn’t have tried to defeat and destroy Nazi Germany, since their actions killed hundreds of thousands of Germans in trying to do so.

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I don’t think anyone denies that some of the running of the club got paid under Hilton. That was never the issue, but clearly a lot didn’t given the repossessions and CCJs which dated from Hilton’s tenure. I am also aware of why The Athletic piece is being delayed, and I don’t want to say too much, but it’s at odds with honest Dave having good intentions. If he didn’t make a profit, it doesn’t mean he didn’t get up to nothing is all I’ll say.

You say he paid the HMRC bill, but it wasn’t out of his own money, was it? So he didn’t lose money from that.

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I like The New Showground.

2 users thanked author for this post.

Just Iron, lesgeo

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Also, if I have made a poor wording choice somewhere, please bear in mind it took me half an hour to type that out and mean it with the best intention possible. I haven’t given it a very thorough proof read, and didn’t want to spend my evening hunting for things that might be misconstrued.

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Yes, I realise that is a lot of text!

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I was going to do a thread making this comment, but felt it would be too vainglorious. I debated whether to make it at all, because it seemed a bit too twee. However, I had a think and decided I should, even if it is not actually about the topic that much. Don’t worry, this isn’t going to be more snark,

At the weekend I attended the march against anti-Semitism in London. It was honestly a humbling experience to join in the biggest march against anti-Semitism since Cable Street and gave me a chance to think about it all. The actual march was peaceful, with ‘bring them home’ the most common chant. No chants of jihad, intifadas or of the destruction of a nation and no disgraceful placards or the sort. Only two arrests, one being an anti-Semite yelling abuse at the marchers, the other being Tommy Robinson for hijacking for his own agenda of making it about hating Muslims (more on that soon). I was actually very close to where he was arrested and saw him being escorted away by the police and laughed before shouting “f**k off, Tommy”. Oh well, but it was made better when I found out his arrest was caused by the march organisers telling the police he is not welcome (and told him beforehand). Which is what should happen with such people. You can’t control them trying to latch on, but you can make an effort to do something to stop it. It is possible.

The speeches however did humble me. They were all good, from the MPs of Labour or Conservative to the chief rabbi and others. What stood out to me from the speeches was besides the messages against anti-Semitism, was the reminder to be aware of not dehumanising others like Muslims ourselves. Eddie Marsan highlighted the rocketing rise of anti-Semitic incidents reported, but also said similar was true for anti-Muslim bigotry, urging us to combat both. The chief rabbi urged us to remember the losses in Gaza and that we should understand that others will see that and deserve understanding, even if we see the need to remove Hamas.

It was also good to see the Iranians, Kurds and Ukrainians out in support. The British Hindu Council, Kurdish, Iranian and Christian groups had all given support to the organisers.

It all did get me thinking and made me realise, alongside my own reflections anyway, that I understand that I haven’t done enough to make that clear here. I still stand by a lot of my own opinions and disagreements over objections to a lot of Israeli standpoints. I still cannot see how conflict from Israel is avoidable, especially as today Hamas have attacked civilians in Jerusalem during a ceasefire and said they would do October 7th again once more. However, I do realise upon reflection, that this doesn’t mean the exact way Israel has conducted the war is necessarily the best and that I haven’t done enough to make it clear that I understand that some of the criticism is of that, and maybe created a conflation between that and the need for war itself. Even if I am more supportive of Israel, it doesn’t mean that I couldn’t have been clearer in how the civilian casualties is horrible and can be worked upon. I am pleased to see Anthony Blinken stress that any support of action in south Gaza must have a clear plan for civilians to make sure casualties are minimised.

I realise that I have been perturbed by what is an increasing trend of unreasonable opinion and, yes, antisemitism on social media, on university campuses and the like. Some of it has been sick and some of the what was fringe views being expressed by academics and others of supposed high reputation. However, I have let that bleed on to others too much in objections on here. Just because there is a lot of problems elsewhere, it doesn’t mean it’s fair to treat others like they are the same as the Michael Walkers, Rivkah Browns and Owen Jones, who is making himself look like a deranged loon with his recent Irving-esque doubt sowing over October 7th.

For these things, and probably other examples I am struggling to think of off the top of my head, I do apologise. I stand by my disagreements over many things on this issue, but will strive to do better. Less snide responses, bettering of clarity in response on what is a sensitive issue and differentiation between the unreasonable comments (at least in my opinion) and the more reasonable.

One thing I have seen with people online, on so many issues, is that they have been consumed and lost their self-awareness and minds, in some cases. Including with those I mostly agree on some topics. Graham Linehan, Owen Jones, Frances Weetman, James Melville, Maajid Nawaz and AC Grayling are just some of these I can think of. I would hate to let any issue do similar to me. So, yes I do apologise for some of my tone in discussions over the past few weeks on this and hope it can be less tense in any future discussion.

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I don’t know where the idea Deerey was the ringleader of accusations has come from. He has been sceptical of Hilton, but most of the accusations originated from iron insider, sufc_not_on_tour etc.

Also, November is early for a Christmas do! What has the world come to?

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Anonymous wrote:

You’ve spent weeks telling us all that read on here that he took our club on for profit, if that didn’t sound crazy on its own you now state that me getting proof he lost money therefore proving you a liar that I’m creating division. It’s far easier if we all just agree with you and deery and pay no interest in the truth. You also said he didn’t pay the tax in January and he benefited by the £40,000 left in the club account a few days before pay day. But you pushing that to supporters who most just want the truth is ok, me publishing proven facts with bank docs is dividing the fans.
Hilton deserves the shit he gets I agree with none of his decision making toward the end even though it got us all where we wanted including him, but he caused us embarrassment and frightened us all to death but I will repeat, it was impossible without a million plus of income we know nothing about that he made money. He lost. That’s all I came on to confirm.

That you are creating division is not a fact, it’s my opinion, so it cannot be a lie. I have said above that you might be right about money coming in. I could be wrong. However, you were recently objecting to my objections over how he was handling the club in his attempted sell. I find his justifications silly and think he would not have done that if he had good intentions. That was not necessary for club sale. The words in his email make me think he was malignent and didn’t want what was best for the club, so even if I am wrong on the money issue, it makes me think he was malicious nevertheless.

Under his tenure we had him communicating via spokespeople and it created division, especially since what was said turned out to be nonsense. I wish Hilton would learn and take ownership and not bother with this self-pity; it was an issue during his tenure. However, he seemingly hasn’t learned, and we now have him yet again speaking with a spokesperson to act on his behalf. I can only speak for myself, but I am not interested in his or Swann’s opinions on how they didn’t do so badly. Hilton has given ample reason for distrust, so I don’t see how such stridency in this is doing anything other than divide. It’s a pointless task.

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Oh dear. Honest Dave told Stuart he did though.

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You have no interest stirring the pot, yet here you are with more assurances to whip up more division.

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Anonymous wrote:

ironingboard wrote:

Deereyme66 wrote:

You gave him longer than he gave posters to supply their email addreses anyway. You might have to wait a bit longer till our new forum member gets a full response from him, but I’m sure it’s on its way.

It’s a shame he hasn’t posted his email address publicly, why does he expect every one else to?

It clearly wasn’t daft was it Siderite because Michelle stepped up and he got to leave. The two alternatives were he carries on funding us when he didn’t want to or we die. Either of those would have been bad for him. So his actions got him and us what we wanted.
I didn’t post to stir unrest, I only posted the evidence that he quite clearly lost a fortune. Everything else said about him has substance but he didn’t take money nor did he buy the club for that reason. He had a go when nobody else would and now we have Michelle rather than Elliot running a phoenix on local parks.

There’s a huge presumption there that Harness wouldn’t have stepped up if he acted more professionally. And what if she didn’t or anyone else didn’t? Honest Dave wouldn’t get thanks for destroying the club and acting like a vindictive individual because he thought it would get people to buy, he would be blamed for acting like the destroyer. Also, it’s completely daft to think this behaviour exonerates him. No, it shows what kind of small and petty minded individual he is. His behaviour was unbecoming, no matter what he says to assure his own conscience about how he was acting in the best interests of the club, while making actions threatening it. If you believe he had those best intentions, how much do you want to pay for my bridge?

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It’s just (rather weak, in my opinion) excuses.

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Deereyme66 wrote:

You gave him longer than he gave posters to supply their email addreses anyway. You might have to wait a bit longer till our new forum member gets a full response from him, but I’m sure it’s on its way.

I hope not. It’s a free country, so he can, but I have no interest in what excuses Hilton has to say. What he is saying might be true, but I am sceptical of a lot of it, but I’d rather it come out in the wash and not have more interactions by spokespeople giving his justifications for failure. Some of it, like him banning fans and cutting funding, while promising he’d have kept the club going, to force a consortium to act are just daft and more unbelievable nonsense. I’d rather focus on support for Harness than have a resurgence of this.

I don’t want to hear from Swann either now the ground is seemingly getting sorted. It’s a new era and the past two failures will be that.

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Ah yes, the days of abusive burner accounts with death threats, more financial worries and gaslighting over it, abuse of fans from Dave and his willing minions like Herbert, and being at risk of going bust again. Those were the days! :-)

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Personally, I think the scepticism is to be expected after his tenure. During it we were told not to listen to the ‘rumours’, which included a lot of truth, because Dave said otherwise. Now we’re being told to again place trust in honest Dave after he’s gone because you came on here and shared an email. Like I said, it provided some info on the debts paid off, but much of the rest is Dave’s word and I have zero interest in sharing emails for what is now a pointless task. I would be glad to see what happened come out in the wash, but I have zero interest in Dave or someone on the behalf of Dave coming out of nowhere saying he has ‘the truth’ to share.

One of the problems was him and his reliance on spokesmen to air his side of the story, which ended in abuse and intimidation through Herbert. It was all an unbecoming and unedifying part of our history and I would rather things come through the club and the media, like they are doing now under our more professional and trustworthy Harness ownership, than return to the days of Hilton’s ramshackle information sharing.

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It’s still all reliant on words from here. I may be wrong, but I am not trusting anything to do with dodgy Dave and am questioning the need to push forward what was said in an email. It will all come out in the wash, and it will be more likely to stick from external sources, not info from Hilton or another fan communicating on his behalf.

1 user thanked author for this post.

ironingboard

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Thank goodness we have the information from honest Dave to assure us.

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The current piece they plan on returning to isn’t on what happened ten years ago, I believe.

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You make too much presumption. I may not like him, but I am not going to start trusting the words of a serial liar regardless. I carry no resentful grudge about where we are, I am thankful that we now have a trustworthy board, but if dodgy Dave is going to try and sucker people again and put forward more woe is me nonsense he can stuff it. It doesn’t take away the issues that he created, the debts he created, including the CCJs and more which came from his time and all he had were excuses and lies.

As for the rest, none of that disproves anything. It wasn’t just Slater who dug into him, and we are again relying on words of a serial liar.

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“He could have handed it to any chancer who would have stripped the club like Stuart day did with Stephen Dale”

Like Swann did with Hilton.

He gets no thanks for ripping off fans with schemes that promised what he knew he couldn’t deliver. He gets no thanks for prolonging the misery with his own attempts to ruin the club because it could have been ruined a few months before. We got more misery with even more debt, CCJs, attacks on fans and creation of disunity. I don’t believe a word he says and I don’t trust his well wishing to be anything more than self-serving after his tenure.

I have been told by people who were reliable before as to what went on behind the scenes, and it’s why Matt Slater of The Athletic said that he plans on returning to the story. It’s not because of covering our recovery, but what went on behind the scenes.

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