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Deereyme66 wrote:

‘Ah yes, a joke. Hilarious. Just how crass can you get.’

Satire, and pretty good in the first and later case. IMO.

I hope Bucks doesn’t watch the TV. There are plenty of shows which have poked fun at politicians since time immemorial.

I’d say that poking fun at politicians is something we should be proud of, whether we find the joke on point or funny or not. Rather that than cultures which cannot poke fun at authority and tend to be controlling in nature.

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Aye, being slaughtered by the Russians is a better position.

Have you not considered what the Ukrainians think or do you claim to speak for them?

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Zelensky.

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Bucksiron wrote:

Siderite, I’ve said many times that the Tories are to blame for lots of things and I’ve also accepted that Brexit has caused problems, to you as well as others, so please don’t make claims that are not true.

Well, maybe don’t have a go at other for daring to criticise the Tories then? You became irate at what was a joke, but what you thought of as critique, aimed at the Tories and homelessness. If you’re going to repeatedly get irritated at people for doing such it’s going to leave the impression you don’t like it when people criticise the Tories and it doesn’t suit your narrative.

I am making no statement on who ends up homeless or how easy it is, but he fact is that it was the Tories who brought in no fault evictions, rough sleeping has increased by 169% since 2010 and this is on the Tories’ watch.

Does this mean I think Labour are perfect? Of course not. They didn’t exactly get rid of no fault evictions last time. However, Labour’s inadequacies are not an excuse for the Tories’ own inadequacies and worsening of the situation. Changes in the laws on affordable rent, freezing of benefits etc seen under the Tories has led to more and more homeless. It would be foolish to think Labour couldn’t make mistakes or would magically do everything perfectly, but saying they would not do any better gives a crucial detail away. It shows that there is no defence for actual Tory handlings of homelessness if all you have is this. Moreover, it shows that it’s not preposterous to criticise the Tories for this issue.

The constant deflection to Labour may seem like a handy debating tactic, but all it does is show the vacuity of the defence.

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These men prey on the vulnerability some young men face today, saying they can cure it through acting like a domineering and aggressive alpha male who cares for no-one else. It gives some men the impression that they are confident and strong if they act like this, and the promised allure of being attractive to women helps those who see themselves as losers.

This is not a healthy vision, given the negative nature of those with that mindset. It has a horrible viewpoint of women and encourages a lack of empathy. However, I think it has an allure because of its promises to make men feel happy and strong, even if that means being cruel, arrogant and bullying towards others.

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God forbid a PM act as a statesman. Interacting with other nations and trying to forge relations is part of the job.

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Heath

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I think he’s saying it’s whataboutery because he thinks you’re using it to deflect from Russian sympathies from other left leaning figures more to your worldview (not saying you are like this here).

Personally, I don’t find this to be damning of Blair. This was 2001 when Putin was more unknown, his problems not yet as evident, so I don’t blame him so much in trying to cause some reconciliation between nations at the time. The issue is among those who have continued to apologise and excuse after Putin’s intransigent hostility became more evident.

I find more to blame in Blair for his palling with corrupt and authoritarian regimes since PM (e.g. Egypt) than this for similar reasons. These countries have exposed their inadequacy now and he has no problem with it.

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I don’t see the whataboutery?

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A lot of people foolishly thought we could deal with Russia on a diplomatic basis back then. It was wrong, but this was before the worst of Putin was known. Some have stalled in treating them as hostile even now.

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Bucksiron wrote:

Of course, when Sir Keir’s PM there won’t be any homeless people.

Just how ridiculous can you get. It’s all so easy for the left. Just blame the Tories for everything. Or just blame Brexit. It’s about the only thing you lot seem capable of doing.

If the left were as good at solving problems as they are at criticising others for them, fine, but they’re not. In fact Labour’s just as useless as the Tories, as I’ve no doubt we’ll be discovering.

Whereas all you sem capable of doing is make out the Tories and Brexit are at fault for nothing when someone else criticises them.

12 years of Tory rule and we are supposed to believe that the Tories have nothing to do with homelessness under their watch. In fact suggesting so is preposterous and blam8ng them for anything.

And, no, I am not saying homelessness would be eradicated under any other party. However, it is demonstrably worse now than under the last Labour government (but I am sure it’s someone else’s fault – it always is). Somehow, despite being just as useless, Labour didn’t seem to cause such a homelessness issue.

Oh, and you missed the point of the OP.

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Deereyme66 wrote:

And now you’re complaining frequently about it causing you problems???

Surely it’s not remiss of someone to realise they were wrong? We should welcome people changing minds rather than stubbornly cling to what is seen as a wrong viewpoint. Otherwise we can’t make the best of whatever situation we face and we’re left with intransigence on important issues.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Iron-awe

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He did do a thread where he said he had some regrets because of how it panned out.

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I see someone else is trying a different kind of fishing.

4 users thanked author for this post.

Iron-awe, TwoWrights, Northumbiron, Deereyme66

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Bucksiron wrote:

“And, no one on here has ever said Labour would never do anything bad. Talk about gaslighting – a perfect example! Is this the dark art of PR at play?”

Indeed, Deerey, nobody on here has EVER said Labour would never do anything bad. You all just keep completely quiet about Labour’s faults.

This is all getting a bit ‘look at yourself in the mirror’. Despite your self-righteousness, you’re no better.

This is why I hate constant dismissals of criticism because ‘the other side does it too’. The truth is that the hypocrisy you point out has been evident with you as well.

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I think it’s obvious what the intention of the question is and it’s you skirting it.

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How preposterous to blame a consequence of Brexit on Brexit. You remainers will blame anything on Brexit…

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I am always wary of people who have no understanding of empathy.

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Bucksiron wrote:

That’s just not true, Sidey.

Except you do it every time someone criticises the Tories. It’s always done with a whatabout Labour.

It may be unfair to say you never criticise the Tories, but whenever anyone else does out comes the whataboutism and deflection.

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“Well, then, why don’t you lot clear off to live in Germany or somewhere else in the EU”

Giving one aspect where Germany may be better doesn’t mean they hate their own country. It is possible to think that we have something to learn from other countries while thinking there are some good aspects about our own.

Personally, I think there’s a lot to be proud of in the UK. However, there are some things in decline, which I do blame the Tories for. This does not make me suspect, a UK hater or some straw man critic.

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Swann paid no attention to Bucks’s previous pleadings, so if he does read it is obvious he won’t pay any attention to it.

Having said that, Bucks’s post doesn’t seem more superfluous than some others on here which seem to just be a way for the OP to vent their frustration (e.g. the who is/are the biggest morons now thread). If Bucks thinks his thread will make a difference he’s deluded, but even I think maybe we shouldn’t give him so much ire on this thread.

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I am pretty sure our labour laws are better than one where thousands of migrant workers died in construction. I am pretty sure we don’t have women and gay people treated as second class citizens. So spare me this false equivance bollocks.

The difference between what the UK did in the past is that this was historical. Qatari problems are happening now. There is no equivalence between the two. We have our problems, but we’re better than a morally squalid dictatorship where debate like this is far more controlled.

Oh, and the majority of Iraqi deaths was caused by Islamist attacks, not US or UK bombings. Also, while the pretext was a load of crap, let’s not pretend that Saddam’s Iraq of genocide against Kurds and massacring Shia’a was some peaceful state.

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Well, those last 3 words will definitely help matters.

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If this was someone criticising the Tories for corruption Bucks would point at Labour and say that pointing out hypocrisy is a valid means of arguing against this. Therefore, it must be reasonable to dismiss this by saying we can’t talk, because of corruption within the UK.

For the hard of thinking, this is not my opinion of a good argument against this, nor do I have any inclination to do so.

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The entertaining nature of the football will never supersede the appalling decision to host it in Qatar due to its many human rights issues.

4 users thanked author for this post.

lesgeo, Iron-awe, Just Iron, Iron Age

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billpuntonsghost wrote:

Scriptures state the unregenerate man is not neutral in his worldview,but hostile to God. You constantly show this in your posts,Fans64.

Your morality tells you that the ‘unregenerate man’ is the one who thinks migrants should be treated humanely? Yet you then say, without irony, that morality is meaningless without God. Well, I’d say that the morality Greg and you follow is not one I would want to emulate.

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Perhaps you could form the only thing which can work to look after our malt whiskies, Bobby. A coalition ;-)

1 user thanked author for this post.

BobbyGmeister

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I can’t even spend one second’s thought on a joke, which wasn’t even meant to be taken derogatively, without misery guts above chiming in.

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I am sure I saw a southern sounding PR guru run past my house this morning, with a lump under his arm, shouting “that’ll teach the predictable usual suspects!”

1 user thanked author for this post.

Deereyme66

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billpuntonsghost wrote:

“It is beyond you that people reject Christianity,not through rebellion against a deity but because we genuinely don’t think it exists.”
God states otherwise in the Scriptures.

It is beyond you that I don’t think Scriptures are some great foolproof evidence isn’t it? And not because I am rebelling against a known truth, but because I doubt their validity as a deity’s word.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Deereyme66

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I can find worth in life from other viewpoints. You just demonstrate your narrow mindedness here. It is beyond you that people reject Christianity, not through Rebellion against a deity, but because we genuinely don’t think it exists.

If God was clear to see, then it wouldn’t be reliant on faith.

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