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They’ve had 12 years of finger wagging. Credulity has finally caught up with them. Yet the ‘party of accountability and responsibility’ will still say how it’s everyone else’s fault.

To many Tories it’s agenda driven and unfair to blame the government for their own decisions. While finger wagging at Labour still, businessmen, ‘remoaners’, forum members who have different views etc is far more worthy.

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Or it could be be we just disagree with Christianity? Your rigid fundamentalism doesn’t allow any other possible explanation. It cannot be that we have a different viewpoint, we have to be nefarious and rebelling against god. Your fellow Christian who you seem to be taking digs at seems to have some understanding of this.

It may be a nifty security mechanism against cognitive dissonance and any insecurities from critique, but it doesn’t have any evidence for it. How would you distinguish between someone ‘rebelling against God’ and finding Christianity, and your version specifically, unbelievable? I don’t believe in Christianity, not because of some active rebellion (who am I rebelling against? I can’t rebel against something I genuinely don’t believe is real), because I don’t find it evidence based. No problems from me to others who do, but it would be nice to have some respect in return.

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Iron-awe

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Deereyme66

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billpuntonsghost wrote:

Gurnelista – “ So why do so many of them support the death penalty?”
Gurnelista always gives the impression of refuting an argument with a “strawman “ post.
The answer to THIS question is that God ( who has reaveled His prescriptive will in the “ God breathed” inspired,inerrrant and sufficient Scriptures) is a JUST GOD.
His message to all people hostile to His word is repent and put your trust in Jesus Christ. God is rich in Mercy. Life does have meaning ,purpose and value.Merry Christmas on a day of celebration tomorrow.

It’s not God carrying out the Death penalty, for one, it’s mankind. Often innocent men and women get killed, which isn’t just.

Secondly, the way you view your god is similar to how many dictators think of themselves. You often talk about how we must all borrow our values from Christianity, but I have no moral value of the death penalty. There are better ways to deal with the worst criminals.

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I think it’s probably wise to be cautious regarding anything before more is known. I would say the same if people were saying it was Islamist or whatever.

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The idea that abortion is ‘murder’ is definitely debatable.

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And Democratic Christians would say that the Republicans’ policies go against their Christian beliefs on charity and helping the poor.

Trying to find the definition of ‘true Christians’ based on selective beliefs is a fools’ errand, as Christianity has branched off into dozens of sects based on interpretation. Each one claiming to have the best understanding, unlike the other ‘false’ and misled factions.

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You’re forgetting that criticising the Tories for that is the typical self-righteous superiority complex of the left, who think they’re better than the right. Whereas the right berating the left in the same manner is acceptable and we should take heed of their superiority.

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Deereyme66

[Siderite]

Or you could, for once, not assume everyone who comments on a piece isn’t doing anything to snipe at you. You could, for once, not project your own persona on to others. ;-)

Of course, it’s silly of me to say I have a different outlook to you, Bucks. I should let go of my political stance and accept libertarian rule is the way. Maybe we should get rid of anything which disagrees with Bucks? After all, thinking differently is seemingly wrong, so why bother with democracy, eh?

My point on welfare was to try and find some common ground by saying that I agree with you on some things, but lean further left. Yet, of course, I should have realised that’s not good enough for you. If I am of a different opinion I am suspect.

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I think your wording to his last response proved his point, Bucks. ;-)

We’re all aware of Tory excuses. We have had so many excuses as to why none of these improvements of living can happen. If it wasn’t for the 2008 financial crisis, Brexit preparations, getting a Brexit deal, the pandemic, Ukraine, net zero, the need for austerity to run its course etc we could have given the nurses a pay rise. There’s always an excuse, it’s never the fault of this Tory government; everyone else is to blame, including those of us on here far poorer and without influence than yourself. It doesn’t wash any more; the conditions for many in the public sector, from healthcare to the justice system have been strained for 12 years and the workers complaining. Yeah, I am sure the Tories would have really given a pay rise if it wasn’t for net zero. I was definitely born yesterday. :-)

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Iron-awe, Deereyme66

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“As for “capitalism is the only way”, although far from perfect there’s no question that open markets are far more efficient, as the Chinese have demonstrated in recent decades after millions died of starvation under Mao.”

Aye and now many more are being kept in a police state with harsh punishment for dissent. An entire ethnicity is facing extermination through concentration camps, forced sterilisation and death.

I am not disagreeing with your argument that capitalism is the only functioning system we have. I don’t disagree, but place more focus on a welfare system than you and Tories, and would point to the last 12 years of hardship as to why we need such. For all their excuses, and avoidance of accountability, this lies on the Tories. However, I am reluctant to credit a dysfunctional, Orwellian state of terror just because it’s had an economic boom since throwing off the worst of Mao.

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I find irony in this everywhere. I agree that many on the left say they’re caring, unlike the right, and then call others scum (I do not agree with the language used on the thread in reference). Then there’s the irony of you complaining of 2D representations of the right while making 2D representations of anyone to the left of you.

I haven’t read that much of the above, so have no inclination to debate. I just thought I’d comment on this one aspect from someone who constantly paints themselves as being more reasonable and less aggressive than everyone else.

[Siderite]

More personal abuse from the saintly victim.

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TwoWrights

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I wonder why the news won’t peddle conspiracy theories. It’s a mystery.

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Deereyme66

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Deereyme66 wrote:

‘But, never mind, eh. I’m sure you’re all nicely wrapped up in your own homes while millions face bills they can’t afford or freeze to death.’

That’s right, blame a handful of posters on a football forum for people freezing to death! Is this the only tactic the Tories have nowadays? Have you not twigged that the British public are seeing right through it? You’re right, probably not much gaslighting from you Bucks, but a series of straw men have been wheeled out!

He says this, yet complains of us believing we are superior. It’s pure projection and no doubt we are at fault for pointing this out. It will be ‘personal abuse’ to say he is self-righteous.

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Pat O'Cake

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Yawn. I will take your self-righteous, hokier than thou attitude more seriously when you don’t dismiss the problems caused to the poor because of the consequences of your party and ideology.

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Pat O'Cake, TwoWrights

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Zambia?

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After 50+ threads on the subject, what this forum really needed was another thread related to climate change and policies on this. I am sure all the arguments made tonnes of times before are really going to sway opinion now, the next time and the time after that when Bucks makes a thread on this. :-)

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Deereyme66 wrote:

And there were most sane people observing the fact that Putin has all but turned the gas off to those EU countries that we rely on for exports from, for heating and to produce our own electricity. Still, deflects from the government getting the rightful blame I suppose. Heard that from an energy expert btw. I’ll take his view thanks rather than a Tory on a football forum with an agenda.

The energy expert is obviously someone with a sinister agenda and is grifting for money for a supercomputer. ;-)

It’s inconceivable that someone with a different view to Bucks may have some clue or be behaving in good faith.

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Northumbiron wrote:

“but popularised and mythologised to promote Christianity and sales of the bible.”

Certainly not to promote sales. In the Middle Ages ordinary Joes were forbidden to read it!

Yeah, but those forbidding it were the idol worshipping, not true Christians, called the Catholics. ;-)

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TwoWrights

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TwoWrights wrote:

God wasn’t very rich in mercy this weekend, ‘nice’ work in Jersey and Solihull, what a caring omnipotent guy. ‘I’m omnipotent but will turn my face away and refuse to help those in Jersey and Solihull’.

God works in mysterious ways and us mere mortals with sin can’t judge its actions. BPG always has a fall back. ;-)

If a human could do something to stop death and pain, but didn’t, BPG would condemn and say this is what happens when people don’t live by a moral code which only makes sense with Christianity. Yet the supposed arbiter of the moral code acts as the straw man amoral atheist.

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TwoWrights

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There is a tendency for moral righteousness on the left. However, I don’t know who said they were morally superior to Bucks out of those mentioned in his last post. It seems to be a sweeping generalisation being applied to some on here based on little. And, as NI says, it’s ironic given how he complains how others do this about Tories.

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Hussey’s life being shattered would apply if she was 23, 53 or 83. Age has nothing to do with it.

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I would say no, as they are Labour affiliated. :-)

Also, If anyone else has trivia questions feel free to add some more.

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BobbyGmeister, Deereyme66

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No, it is the number of MPs. Bobby is closest, but there is a trick in the question. He’d otherwise be correct. The fourth largest party in the House of Commons, with the fourth highest number of MPs is the Cooperative Party with 28, which is more than the Lib Dems’ 14.

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BobbyGmeister

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Also, racists would have hounded her regardless of what she did.

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Simon and Ian said they expect it to go through by mid-December. Give them some time before the anguish.

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BobbyGmeister

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Not including the House of Lords. Just the Commons.

I will give the answer tomorrow. ;-)

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I will hold off before confirming to see if anyone gets it. One clue is that it does require thinking outside the box.

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Bucksiron wrote:

Exactly, Siderite, because it was linked with royalty while anyone linked with the royalty isn’t going to say anything in response. But of course that’s fine because there’s nothing wrong with pillorying an 83 year-old woman if she’s connected with the Royal Family (and no, I’m not suggesting you said or implied that yourself). In fact, according to the likes of Heath the fact she’s had such a life and is now so old just means she should know better.

And, Siderite, what part of my last comment about having an agenda do you fail to understand???? It had nothing whatever to do with having an agenda and still has nothing to do with having an agenda. As I said earlier, the problem is that given Fulani’s very obvious agenda, what she’s actually done is provide perfect ammunition — and a lot of it — for the far right to exploit.

But, hey, at least this provides the usual suspects with an excuse to reel out the same old hackneyed expressions about racist and sneering Tories. The desperately sad thing is that fighting racism appears to be well down the list of what really matters, not forgetting the reason this event was happening in the first place, which was to fight domestic abuse.

She is 83 and of sound mind, so can handle criticism.

And as I said, the far right would find issue no matter what regarding racism claims and how they are handled. The only answer they will be happy with is to shut up about it. Fulani or anyone would always be at fault for raising an issue, so I don’t think this would raise anty more ammunition than any other response. The far right would cause an issue regardless

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