[Siderite]

One reason we wouldn’t hear about it if Hussey was a working class woman from the street is because she would be less likely to be in a position of authority or note. It’s more newsworthy because it’s linked with the royalty. Someone less of note making similar comments in the pub isn’t. However, such people do complain in less newsworthy contexts.

As for ‘agendas’. Everyone has their biases, but you seemingly like to point out agendas among others in a dismissive way when you have an agenda yourself.

I do agree that education on why it’s racist would be a good response, but racists would use anything as ammunition. Nothing is a legitimate response to racism for them, so they’d use it as ammunition no matter what.

[Siderite]

You say that, but the Republicans have been in thrall to some weird orange cultist for the past few years. :-)

Anyone who disagreed was cast aside as a villain, like Liz Cheney, Romney or McCain.

[Siderite]

billpuntonsghost wrote:

Do i care ,no. What I said was ,I was surprised no one “liked” my opening post.
Seems rather insecure??

I know who you’re trying to goad. If you weren’t bothered in any way I don’t think you’d see the need to comment.

2 users thanked author for this post.

TwoWrights, Just Iron

[Siderite]

Do you need that to feel validated? Seems rather insecure.

1 user thanked author for this post.

TwoWrights

[Siderite]

That’s usually because you usually cite my views when going into dismissals of any opinion against yours.

In all honesty, I don’t get overly bothered by it. I just like to defend myself, perhaps sometimes overly so, which may come across as it being more bothersome than it is. I have more than enough stresses in my life. No point adding more.

[Siderite]

Oh wait, I thought it was all about the economy, stupid.

While that’s an axiom which has some truth for certain situations, it has been evident for two years that a critical number of Americans have grown weary of Trumpism, its naked corruption and threats to democratic norms.

Many who cast a hugely sceptical eye to anything liberal, while ignoring conservative cases of rashness seemed to see the 2020 election as yet another instance where liberals needed to cater for the Trump fans/true, salt of the Earth, common men because of the high Trump turnout, ignoring the even larger Democrat turnout. The warning signs were there, but the Republicans and those sympathetic didn’t take heed because, as usual, they lack self-critical capabilities and can only focus on issues with the other side. Some of it has elements of truth, but they are blind to their own issues which has motivated many to keep voting Democrat despite it all.

[Siderite]

Belgium have only been ‘heavyweights’ for less than a decade. Portugal will be favourites for their game against Morocco, provided Switzerland don’t stage a miraculous comeback as I type. Netherlands, France, us, Croatia and probably Portugal will still be in it.

South America has always had Argentina and Brazil as heavyweights and they have had a poor 20 years in the world cup. What we’re seeing is a resurgence of them more than anything. Europe still has the most quarter finalists.

These things ebb and flow. Just look at previous world cups. 2002 – France, Portugal out at the group stage, Netherlands didn’t qualify. 2010 – France, Italy out the group stage, England barely scraped through in a poor group. 2014 – England, Spain out of the group stage. 2018 – Italy don’t qualify, Netherlands don’t qualify, Germany out of the group stage.

It’s not much different than normal, except both Brazil and Argentina look like they could make the semi-finals reducing the usual 3+ European teams to probably 2. All 4 semi-finalists could still be European.

[Siderite]

Heaven forbid me saying I don’t think he was doing that.

2 users thanked author for this post.

Deereyme66, Just Iron

[Siderite]

I don’t think JI was puffing his chest in some attempt to show how superior he is. He was responding to Gurny’s claims about how he’d act with people who aren’t white.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Deereyme66

[Siderite]

Bellingham is sensational though.

[Siderite]

Yes, the polls show the idea is popular. However, when put it on the table they don’t vote for it, and Labour have had a hard time trying to convince the public their policies are economically viable.

[Siderite]

64 wrote:

Unpopular like renationalising rail and utilities?

I think the public have some sympathy to the idea of such but need to be convinced as to how nationalisation could be done economically.

[Siderite]

If only Starmer pursued policies that are unpopular with the public, but popular among ‘true Labour’, to demonstrate his ideological purity. What’s the point of getting yourself elected into power, where you can help the country, when you can sit in opposition basking in your moral righteousness in opposition to Tory policies?

3 users thanked author for this post.

BobbyGmeister, TwoWrights, Heath

[Siderite]

No worries. I admit I find it hard to maybe say anything stronger because I am not the target. I don’t want to take it upon myself to be the forum policeman and create more problems than I probably already do. I did feel the need to say something, especially since I liked Gurny’s post. I wanted to make it clear that I was liking it for the rest of the post which I think raises good points, so you didn’t think I was liking that particular element of the post.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Just Iron

[Siderite]

I thought so, you’d mentioned them before. My reference to Corbyn was solely as a high profile example who has the same generalised commonalities with the elements you were describing.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Just Iron

[Siderite]

This thread is about Ukraine. I am aware that aspects of the left only seem to care about the Palestine situation, but effort can be made to focus on other countries’ situations too. Unfortunately there are those who apologise for our support Russia in this conflict, and it’s that which Deerey is focusing on.

Palestine isn’t some acid test for human rights support worthiness, if they are excusing Russia they’re excusing a mass murdering rogue state, and I’d argue many who focus on Palestine aren’t being particularly moral. Too many are apologists for Hamas and Hezbollah, which is why their flags often appear at demos.

[Siderite]

He’s allowed to believe it and we’re allowed to criticise. I was bringing him up as a high profile example of those who Deerey is alluding to.

You usually complain when threads get diverted. Palestine is a separate topic.

[Siderite]

Th ‘centre-left’ Corbyn was on Hezbollah sponsored TV the other month saying we need to stop supporting Ukraine for ‘peace’. On this he neglected to mention what that means for Ukraine and its citizens. These are the people Deerey is referring to, I believe. Those who would rather obfuscate and finger wag at the west rather than deal with the uncomfortable truths that many of the west’s enemies are unplatable.

[Siderite]

A lot of well reasoned arguments there Gurny. I wouldn’t pass aspersions onto how JI would converse with black people, but the rest are really good points.

[Siderite]

I don’t think the initial question was the major problem. The issue is that she apparently kept asking after being repeatedly told Britain.

Either way, this issue would have been sorted with an apology,ideally, but neither side wants that, so it will be yet another stupid culture war borne out of intransigence.

[Siderite]

1 user thanked author for this post.

Deereyme66

[Siderite]

Bucksiron wrote:

And, Siderite, I’ve never claimed to be perfect. The truth is that neither are you or anyone else on this board.

lol. I haven’t claimed to be perfect either, I know I am not and have apologised for when I have made errors. Being wrong is no skin off my nose, but you often wag your finger at others while displaying the same behaviour you engage in.

Pointing out you’re not mr perfect does not mean I think I am.

[Siderite]

There’s a lot I agree with there, but I think we need to wait before we make cast iron judgements over intent. Fulani made it sound like Hussey kept questioning after she said Britain. Hussey may not have been intentionally malicious, but sub-conscious bias is a thing. More forgivable, maybe, but not right and still could be seen as racism.

“As for “blaming black people for inviting racism on themselves being low”, that is just ridiculous”

You’re the one saying this episode would make things worse, as if calling out what is perceived to be racism is wrong. As if in a blatantly obvious racist episode racists and their apologists wouldn’t say the same thing. They would then say this is wrong because it fans the flame of the real racists.

It’s the same tale every time. We saw it with anti-Semitism in Labour when many said that of course they’d be against real anti-Semitism and that the claims made were inviting the real anti-Semites to take advantage. Yet when examples of anti-Semites making Holocaust denial claims, artwork of Jews with stereotypical features and star of Davids with swastikas came out these people were silent.

I am categorically not saying you are like this or don’t care about racism. My point is that this is a bad argument because it implies it’s wrong to complain about racism

“The idea that Ngozi Fulani is perfect because she’s black is as nonsensical as claiming that someone is bad because they’re white.”

Can you get through one post without straw manning me please? Please point to where I said black people are inherently perfect. My point had sod all to do with identity politics nonsense. The point you’re responding to has nothing to do with what you’re rebutting with. I wasn’t saying black people are perfect, I wasn’t implying you don’t like black people. Enough with these ridiculous misinterpretations.

[Siderite]

If only Starmer kept to the manifesto which was part of the worst electoral result for Labour since 1935 and kept pursuing the ideological purity politics which has seen them out of power for a decade. :-)

[Siderite]

A voice of a different opinion would be good. I don’t disagree with Bucks on everything, and there are often things I agree with. I do try and see the best in people. I just wish I wouldn’t need to battle against straw men and misrepresentations, mostly. I also feel that he’s sometimes guilty of doing what he accuses the left of doing in stereotyping those more to the left.

[Siderite]

BobbyGmeister wrote:

Siderite wrote:

The curvature of the ball was still overhanging the line, I believe they had goal line technology to determine this, so it was in.

If that’s the case where is the picture showing this?

FIFA should have provided more footage during the game. However, they do have motion sensors and more evidence than us with our subjective eyes.

The photos aren’t being hidden, however. They can be seen online, and there’s no clear indication of green between ball and line to me. Certainly not enough to warrant these conspiracies.

For everyone saying the ball was out for the Japan goal pic.twitter.com/cNgSg8mIdI

— Jamie (@JamieBVB30) December 1, 2022

The rules are that the whole ball has to be over the line, and angles can be deceiving:

pic.twitter.com/7ngxz1k447

— Jézzy (@Sir_Lord_Jezzy) December 1, 2022

[Siderite]

Before you start straw manning and misrepresenting, no I am not making any implications against you or casting certainty on Fulani’s story. I am just saying that the age excuse and the ‘inviting racism’ rhetoric isn’t good regardless of what actually happened.

[Siderite]

Age isn’t an excuse for racism, so that shouldn’t even come into it.

There’s a difference between being asked where you come from and being continuously asked where you really come from time and time again after being told Britain, assuming the account was true. Black Brits are as British as everyone else on this board. It may be that the intent was good, but I am not going to jump to assumptions because it ‘must be’ because old people are inherently like that. That comes across as benevolently ageist to me.

Also, blaming black people for inviting racism on themselves is very low. No matter of whatever the full story is here, it does not excuse racism and anyone using this to seize upon this would do so anyway. This is just an excuse to use to hide their intent.

Time will tell about the context and situation, hopefully, but being 83 doesn’t give any excuse if it is a poor context. That said, I am all for forgiveness and in this social media dominated world it’s just going to be another polarised issue between the apologists and those baying for blood. An apology would suffice, in my opinion, and then we can move on. However, that won’t be the case. It will be one side using it to tear into the Royals as a whole and the apologists who will want to make out that she couldn’t have possibly been racist, even if the actual wrong is relatively small.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Deereyme66

[Siderite]

The curvature of the ball was still overhanging the line, I believe they had goal line technology to determine this, so it was in.

[Siderite]

Was it the manager who coached us when we scored 400 goals in 10 seasons, with us getting the ball into the box at every opportunity? I can’t quite place the name. :-)

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North Lincolnshire Irons

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