[Siderite]

All I will say is ha. I couldn’t care less what you, Turek or what others think. I don’t need to demonstrate it through some futile argument and crow about being some winner. I have debated many times before with you and others and none of it has convinced me. I, of course, could be wrong, but I am happy enough with my own position and feel no distress at the thoughts that others disagree. If I did, I would feel the need to demonstrate and display arrogance to hide my own insecurities.

[Siderite]

Then, it would obviously be a good thing. I don’t see how squatting and paying for a rent deal that Swann doesn’t want is a viable position, legally, but I am no expert by any means.

[Siderite]

You were calling me foolishness for my words, not my worldview. Anyway, this just demonstrates your inability to understand other views, frankly. Anyone who disagrees with me is a fool does not make me think you’re open to a healthy discussion on this.

The point you miss, amazingly, is that I can’t be arsed to make a defence. Not because I can’t, but because it’s futile and I am secure enough to know that I don’t need to demonstrate it to some anonymous, self-appointed arbiter of the argument, who is too blind to even try and comprehend another point of view outside of their own bias. I have debated with you before and it’s wearisome. There’s no attempt at understanding, but this will fall on deaf ears and we will have you repeat the same coping mechanism about how I can’t defend my atheistic worldview. If that makes you feel more secure about your own beliefs, so be it, but I feel the need to forever challenge others and demonstrate how ‘right’ you are is borne through nothing more than insecurity. Your continuous attempts to discredit others because they can’t be bothered to get into a proper debate is just you trying to convince yourself that you’re right and boost your own ego, in my opinion. You don’t ever engage with the points addressed to you and just respond with your already formed view and dismisalls of anything to the contrary.

I have said enough now. I expect more triumphant guffaws, childish arguments of how I haven’t answered, therefore I cannot answer (illogical) all to demonstrate your superiority, and thus making it evident to myself (and others, probably) why you’re not worth getting into a debate with.

[Siderite]

People will say that the subsequent issues found by Hilton justify the refusal to commit to paying. However, if the court rules against Hilton, stating that Swann hasn’t moved goalposts significantly and there are any comments which make such found issues seem small, I won’t be thanking Hilton for ‘trying his best’. I will be blaming him for his part in what would be a bad outcome for the club, alongside Swann.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Iron-awe

[Siderite]

You just keep proving my point that it’s futile to even try. I don’t know what you’re trying to demonstrate with such arrogance except for showing an insecurirt in your own beliefs. If you were secure, I don’t think you’d see the need ro score ‘wins’ by convincing yourself that those silly atheists and agnostics aren’t responding to debate because they can’t, when they can’t be arsed to waste time with someone who has a predetermined conclusion is also an explanation. Also, it’s one professed by many, but as I said, you know best, evidently. You have all the answers already, and know no unbeliever can refute it. You have said as much, so no need for anyone to waste time and energy. You won’t get any kind of understanding of another position from it.

What I have said before shouldn’t be hard to understand really. I have explained why I don’t think you’re a good faith debater. Yet you resort to insults against intelligence, without addressing what I have said. Now, what was that about ad hominems?

[Siderite]

Aye, you would love me to get involved, so your ego can get a boost in trying to tear my response apart. I have already given my reasons as to why I am not getting sacked in to a proper debate with you. I don’t think you’re a good faith debater, no matter how hard you say otherwise.

[Siderite]

Ferrite wrote:

Seems Max has deleted some of his earlier tweets in a thread about the hearing, not sure why?

He posted photos of the courtroom, which is prohibited. I suspect he saw sense and took them down.

[Siderite]

I’m pleased you have all the answers without the need of anyone to form a rebuttal. If we can’t answer it, we don’t need to bother. It’s a good job none are wasting their time responding then.

[Siderite]

You responded to my post on your general debating style, yet you responded with an attempt to discredit this with a reference to no-one debating the videos. Yet you have repeatedly got into debates with this previously, or is this being denied now? I recall having several, and people grow weary because of your debating style. I do not believe you when you claim not to be out for wins or gotchas when you seem to see people’s boredom with your input on this topic as some win and irrefutable proof that it can’t be answered. It’s beyond your comprehension to even look at yourself in the mirror and understand how your debating style is impacting others. It cannot be that you bore people, irritate them with refusals to understand other points of view, no. It has to be because you are right all along and everyone else cannot hope to match your superior mindset. Convenient.

While you’re on about ad hominem fallacies, you might want to look into things like the fallacy fallacy, because assuming your position is right because you think others have made a poorly argued point against this vid isn’t proof of you being correct or atheists not being able to answer the point because they can’t (rather than can’t be arsed).

[Siderite]

I wasn’t referring to the debates on this or other videos, specifically. I was referring to debates in general, going back years on this site. So, before guffawing like you have caught others out, perhaps try and think about what is said, not what you want it to say, eh? I was referring to debates based on what you have said, not what Turek of others have said in a video.

[Siderite]

There’s no point debating with bpg or engaging. There’s no good faith in debate with him. Everything is a tactic to try and find some gotcha which shows he’s right. Answer his questions and you get endless repeats of the same question, no matter if you have answered it or not, and claims that you can’t answer it or are stumped by it. Refusing to watch endless propaganda videos and refute the claims presented is another ‘win’, followed by guffaws and arrogant triumph because it cannot be that you are just bored with it, it must mean you aren’t able to refute. He starts with his conclusion and uses your answers to demonstrate his pre-ordained conclusion, without even thinking about what is said. It’s not an attempt to understand the other side, as such a discussion should be, but to make himself feel secure.

There’s no point with it, because bpg has all the answers, so there is no chance of convincing bpg he is wrong on any point, even small. I don’t expect bpg or anyone to reject faith based on my arguments, but there’s not even an inkling of curiority or understanding as to how atheists or agnostics may form their worldviews. We just have to be rebelling against God because of our hatred of it, and unable to form our own moral codes based off other factors.

Why waste time with the pigeon who wants to knock over the chess pieces and say that he’s won all the time?

[Siderite]

Deereyme66 wrote:

So was he at Leeds yesterday in a SET reporting capacity or not? At present it seems unlikely given nothing’s been published. Awaywego, do you know? You seemed pretty sure yesterday?

I think Max was there on behalf of the Iron Army channel, not SET.

[Siderite]

Iron-awe wrote:

You don’t need to or have to like any football club owner, you just want them to run your club in a reasonable sustainable manner and not run it into the ground.

Max Bell isn’t our owner.

[Siderite]

We’re still assuming that common sense is on Hilton’s side here. I won’t be thanking Hilton in March if we’re booted out. I hope both knock their heads together, and less of the excuses from Hilton too. Get it sorted.

After all, Swann isn’t paying £20k a month for the rent, as previously stated.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Deereyme66

[Siderite]

To be fair, the question of ground issues was true, and this was dismissed as rumours. As was a supporter cap. I think there is a lot for people to reflect on, and not just from IE. Of course we shouldn’t jump to the worst conclusions, as he did, when the situation is rectifiable. At least for the short term. That said, we shouldn’t just assume whatever is said about Hilton must be false because of Swann/trouble makers/club killers/whatever. There was a chance we could have been evicted with this, and many did dismiss this as nonsense when it was first being mooted.

What we should do (everyone, myself included) is to unite behind the team and keep an eye on our club, while not getting sucked in to the agendas of the two main men involved. Hilton succeeding in court or finding common ground with Swann is what I hope for, but it may be that he makes a cock up or even be wrong, jeopardising our future. We should be open to that in the coming months as the full hearing approaches.

That said, no immediate need for doom and gloom. Our short term future is secure and we can be happy for another day.

3 users thanked author for this post.

Sharp_Shooter24, Deereyme66, Cliff Byrne's Right Peg

[Siderite]

Ironinsider seems to see the murmurings of potential trouble, which do give concern, but then jumps to the worst possible conclusion and says anyone who thinks otherwise is blind. The truth is in between everything being hunky dory and at last chance saloon.

4 users thanked author for this post.

Sharp_Shooter24, , Iron-awe, SODIron

[Siderite]

OK. Breathe easy, for a while. 7p rent seems ridiculous.

[Siderite]

5 users thanked author for this post.

Heath, Iron-awe, Northumbiron, Deereyme66, TwoWrights

[Siderite]

On the other side we have Jason Herbert to chant “Dave Hilton’s barmy army” before being removed and banned from court. :-)

1 user thanked author for this post.

Iron-awe

[Siderite]

These things have previously not happened, despite your proclamations, yet here you are acting superior to us idiots. In 2021 you were speaking about us never coming out of lockdown. This is why I won’t take your concerns seriously, along with the lack of sign of it.

Do you need me to explain what “I really doubt mask mandates and lockdowns will happen” means? Also, you haven’t given a date for your certain prediction. You will possibly just say the lockdowns are just around the corner over time, as this scenario doesn’t happen in all likelihood.

[Siderite]

And if it doesn’t happen, no doubt you’ll say you were right along and the totalitarian state is just around the corner with the next paranoid conspiracy theory of yours. I really don’t see the public or political will outside of fever dreams of ther paranoid.

After all, you were saying such a year ago and when were those lockdowns since 2021? I don’t remember any. Also, the vaccine mandates you told us idiotic sheeple were happening. Somehow they aren’t much of a thing any more. This totalitarian neo-Marxist state, led by a Thatcherite, needs to get its act together and be totalitarian, if that’s what it is.

[Siderite]

I wasn’t taking a side in your debate with him. I was just adding a piece of my own opinion.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Just Iron

[Siderite]

I do agree that IB raises some good points on CCJs and the answer from Hilton.

[Siderite]

Don’t get bpg started on his lockdown paranoia. I really doubt mask mandates or lockdowns will come from this. It’s, of course, important to keep note of variant development, because living and adapting with covid does not mean just forgetting about its existence. It’s not an attempt by the totalitarian/neo-Marxist/(((globalist))) elite to rule over us.

[Siderite]

I would hope Dean is not relaying the thoughts of over-exuberant fans in the dressing room before a game.

[Siderite]

I should add that the share prices above are from about a month since the controversy. The current share prices are up from July on the whole. I don’t think there is any hit to their business from the ‘boycott’ to date. They did have a big drop from the start of the year, which suggests that any struggles they have are unrelated to this issue.

[Siderite]

I don’t think the boycott worked. They are trading at a 4 month high. I may have concerns about how trans rights issues are presented, and don’t particularly like how the Wickes boss acted, but most people just want a convenient shop for DIY goods. Wickes provided that. In the ‘culture wars’, I think it’s important not to get too carried away in how much of a big issue people see the views of Wickes owners when it doesn’t impact why they use that shop.

[Siderite]

Iron-awe wrote:

Which is a shame you engaged with him Siderite, we all know his agenda by now. Have you got into any of Dylan’s songwriting where he was aware of what was and is going on in the world and some of his songs reflect that? Would be interesting to hear your view on Dylan as a songwriter.

True. I felt like, given his recent spate of grandstanding, it needed a defence against such. Especially given the crass and ignorant accusations. I do not think he is asking questions in a level manner, as other Christians may do, but with loaded ones aimed at trying to demonstrate a moral superiority. I will leave it at that. I won’t go along any longer on this thread.

As for Dylan, he is a great songwriter, and I do love his way with words. Ballad of a thin man is a favourite of mine. I do think his civil rights stance would have him chastised as ‘woke’ if that was a charge back then. Just think of songs like Hurricane.

On wokeness, there is a tendency for some ‘progressives’ to categorise everything as some sort of social justice issue or discriminatory bias, which probably fits what woke is. However, the anti-woke side are just as bad in trying to dismiss any issue about discrimination. Finding that middle ground is hard, because either side will accuse you of being the other side when disagreeing with them. Seemingly, nuance isn’t a thing any more.

[Siderite]

You’re the one piously making yourself out to be superior to everyone, not me. I have repeatedly said I am not judging Christians and can see how they can be moral. You, on the other hand, are utterly unable to demonstrate any understanding. People have answered your moronic questions time and time again and given an account for secular morality. Yet you ignore it and prattle on with the same self-righteous sense of superiority towards others, and dismissals of others as unable to hold morality because of their disagreements over the existence of God. This is why I am speaking of high horses, not because you are ‘challenging’ my standpoint.

I’d be a hypocrite if I had put myself in your position, demeaning anyone who believes in God. Yet I haven’t and repeatedly said I understand that Christians are moral and can develop such from their own faith, so I don’t think you understand what a hypocrite is, frankly. Your arguementative style does not come across as good faith on here, I am afraid, and I am long beyond grace for it given your insulting ignorance and attempts to score one upmanship. If this isn’t your intention, you have failed spectacularly. IA is right, your self-righteous holeir than thou attitude is best off ignored.

[Siderite]

The existence of more than one ideology I oppose is really beyond you, isn’t it? Secularism does not equal totalitarian communism (nor are we turning into Chinese style totalitarianism) any more than being a Christian means you support Uganda and Christian theocracies around the world. However, I have doubts as to whether you’d oppose that if that happened here. So get off your high horse and maybe attempt to understand others, just for once?

For an alleged font of morality you display very little empathy or attempts at understanding.

[Author]

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