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  • in reply to: To be pro monarchy #261785
    GurnelistaGurnelista
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    It seems that many of the doffers love the idea of royalty, rather than the practicalities of it.

    They like the ceremony, the history, the pomp and symbolism, the fascination it inspires in foreigners, and the comforting role it has in their own sense of national identity and even their sense of self.

    But it’s a romantic notion, it’s an illusion, a myth, and that makes it a bit like religion. Or Brexit. Remove the curtain, let in the daylight, and there’s nothing more than an empty box… just a trick played on one’s imagination.

    It just doesn’t withstand scrutiny. A very extended family of ludicrously wealthy and privileged individuals – not just the immediate royal family but all the (en)titled hangers on – the dukes, duchesses, lords, ladies, barons, baronesses etc. and all their offspring … a landed gentry going back to 1066 who still own most of this country, almost all there by accident of birth.

    Thanks to the taxpayer, most lead very sheltered, privileged and protected lives, yet remain unskilled. And what exactly do they do, that elected representatives could not do? Some have behaved appallingly but continue to get away with it. True, a few get involved with charities, but then what’s charity but a 19th century concept, created to cover a failure of government responsibility and absolve the consciences of the rich. It papers over the cracks and places responsibility on the backs of the little people.

    But what’s worse is that they proudly sit atop the pile, at the head of a class system that silently tells people that some folk (them) are naturally better and more deserving than others – the rich man in his castle, the poor man at his gate – and even how their aristocratic estate and good fortune was ordained by God! (How else could it happen?)

    And here’s another thing. Those who believe most fervently in the present state of affairs are the ones the royals most despise, because they know how ridiculous the whole thing is, and how stupid the doffers are to go along with it, with their cardboard crowns, tea towels, biscuit tins and of course, mugs…

    Will the country ever awaken and be woke from its national psychosis? Just before posting this I see John Harris thinks it will, but people were predicting the same back in 1997 and probably 1967… the madness of crowds is a strange thing.

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    in reply to: Express Our Season / Club By The Medium Of Song #261211
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    in reply to: Trump #259209
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    Very true IA – nobody on the political right now talks about the ‘unacceptable face of capitalism’. That’s because the Tories and Republicans have repositioned themselves as far-right parties where the rules don’t matter and anything goes. There’s been a total collapse in controls for corruption, malfeasance, and truth-telling. Awfulness has become normalised on bothe sides of the Atlantic.

    In fact, if it weren’t for its obscene wealth, you could almost classify the US as a 3rd world country, with its stupid guns, loathsome churches, unbridled capitalism in league with right-wing media, and the consequent extensive poverty, social division and violent crime.

    Meanwhile, the right talks about too much political correctness! Too many rights for this, rights for that, and how it’s all wrong. They said the same when slavery was abolished and again with civil rights.

    Fact is, that a society as violent, misogynist, racist and unequal as America clearly doesn’t have enough PC. And those who ignore or deny it, are complicit in it. They keep it going, and ensure it won’t change. Quite how the political right and their conscience manage this really does beggar belief – whether Christian, Atheist or Jedi!

    Oh, and in sum, very dim Les.

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    in reply to: Trump #259079
    GurnelistaGurnelista
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    Trump is a charismatic authoritarian bully, an inveterate lying narcissist, with a man-child mentality. He’s totally unfit to lead, but he will and does appeal to those who like far-right politics, populism, and dislike the social changes posed by feminism, lgbtq rights, multiculturalism, etc.

    Trump appeals to those who like strong, right-wing leaders who dislike experts, ignore facts, and who like to work on gut feelings backed up by an ability to work a (dim) crowd into a frenzy with tub-thumping preaching/speeches, populist rhetoric and slogans. He’s a sort of Francisco Franco for the 21st century, and his appeal to JL is guaranteed.

    In the 20-teens there was a fashion for this kind of leader (see also Johnson and Farage), largely due to austerity and the ways in which people were persuaded to blame immigration and the EU, rather than the right-wing leaders and their lack of economic control.

    Had Trump been a man of the left, he’d (rightly) have been crucified by the right-wing media long ago. It’s only down to press bias that Trump, Farage and Johnson have prospered.

    Personally, I see a nightmarish orange person with a rat-clown face whose trousers end up around his ankles every time he speaks.

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    in reply to: New manager needed for NLN #258136
    GurnelistaGurnelista
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    It’s a familiar story.
    Surprising how much the club have in common with Spain’s Malaga.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65042578

    in reply to: The BBC Just Cancelled Itself #257604
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    Is it true jonnie needs the help of a bishop and a horse every time he prepares to mate, JL?

    in reply to: The BBC Just Cancelled Itself #257600
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    Whatever happened to his politics of envy arguments….?

    These cliches are a way to protect the status quo. The ‘politics of envy’ implies that if you haven’t done well from our current state of inequality, any criticism of it is because you’re envious of those who have done well. The opposite is ‘champagne socialism’ which implies if you have done well, you shouldn’t be critical of it.

    Lineker’s case is interesting because as being a well-off national hero, he’s the son of a market trader and is of immigrant stock. His criticism of the government and his defence of refugees thus make him particularly annoying to the Daily Mail reading classes, who think that he should behave like they would, ie be grateful, keep his head down and ignore social injustice, especially where immigration is concerned.

    It’s the same feeling that drives tabloid vitriol towards Meghan Markle, except for a rich, foreign, black woman who’s married a prince, it’s even worse.

    in reply to: The BBC Just Cancelled Itself #257570
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    there is no such thing as an illegal asylum seeker

    Aye, it’s the law that makes an act illegal, not a person, and when people are trying to escape danger, there’s no question of illegality.

    Britain is often the country to which refugees gravitate when there’s war, poverty and other threats at home. Why? Because after so many British invasions and involvement in countries around the world, mainly due to imperial expansion, trade and the need for oil, English is the second language of millions, plus, compared to many political and religious dictatorships, the country has a reputation for being decent and humane, so it’s a natural choice.

    Course, the main reason we know about the problems besetting refugees is because of the BBC. If public service broadcasting were abandoned to the profit motive, who on earth would bother to make a programme about problems in Syria, Afghanistan etc? There’s no money in it, and it only makes people empathise and question global inequality. Much cheaper and more profiable to make a cheap game show or similar.

    And yes, there are abuses of our generosity, just as there are abuses of any system created to help those in dire straits. The Tories said the same when the welfare state was set up here. But it’s a right-wing trick to focus on the few abuses and argue they are widespread and typical, when they are neither. True, these arrangements will never function perfectly, but we shouldn’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good, as every Christian knows.

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    in reply to: The BBC Just Cancelled Itself #257496
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    Just to get back on track for a moment…

    The BBC is excellent and one of this country’s crown jewels. But that’s not to say it’s perfect. Last week we saw Fiona Bruce say that Johnson’s dad had only hit his wife once, which she dismissed as if unimportant, despite evidence he’d hit her on repeated occasions. Bruce subsequently resigned from her post as ‘ambassador’ for a domestic violence charity and quite right too, it was a stupid remark.

    Perhaps more serious was the way on which the BBC interviewed expert economists and others during the Brexit campaign, and for ‘balance’ they also interviewed Kippers and others, most of whom were thicker than a whale omelette. Now, if everyone can see it’s raining outside and someone says ‘no, the sun’s shining’, you don’t interview the ‘shiners’ in the name of balance! Yet, this is what happened on too many occasions. Complete idiots were treated with deference / reverence, as if they were experts.

    Same with Johnson – he’s a proven liar and deserves to be called out when he tells lies, yet auntie failed and fails still, to do this on numerous occasions.

    And then there’s this ‘ere chairman, a man with no experience in broadcasting, and one who has does big favours for Johnson, and compromises the ‘arm’s length’ principle of the BBC.

    Despite these weaknesses it has proved a reliable source of info during Covid and still is a leading source on international news, such as the reporting from Ukraine, which is why the rest of the world looks to it as a beacon of excellence, and totalitarian governments fear and ban it.

    Privatise the news, and what are you left with? Trump-supporting conspiracy stations like G-Beebies and Sky, with an avalanche of adverts in which the first casualty is truth. In fact the news itself would become like an advert… for the liars and charlatans on the far-right. Why? Because it suits the agenda of those funding them, and because it’s so easy for others to pay/sponsor a broadcaster to churn out sensational, exaggerated and plain untrue stories about foreigners, scroungers, teachers, doctors, lefties… all without a shred of evidence.

    Yep, the BBC has it’s problems, but the way in which it’s funded allows it to keep at arms length from government, and consistently be the best there is, not only at news but at bringing the country together. That’s because it can commission programmes which are not necessarily profitable, but are nevertheless important, e.g. documentaries about history, nature, science and so on, even religious programmes which I resent but accept. That’s in contrast to channels of wall to wall commercial ‘messages’ interspersed with game shows, etc. – as informative, educational and entertaining as an ocular migraine.

    All that said, the BBC has two of the most annoying people on TV – Winkleperson and Balding. Aye, shut it down now!

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    in reply to: The BBC Just Cancelled Itself #257394
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    BI Mr Perfect – maintaining his record of being wrong about everything as usual! The Peter Swann of non-football!

    The government is criticised for using language that only 20 years ago would have been the language of the BNP, and BI’ waffles about taxpayers’ rights.

    The public has every right to be concerned about this government’s nefarious back-door influence on the BBC, which is becoming commonplace…
    https://uk.news.yahoo.com/bbc-editors-asked-journalists-avoid-210844842.html

    Unsurprisingly, many presenters have been critical of government policy for some time. Although there are rules about it, they are not clear given how social media has evolved, and consequently enforcement has been lax. BI’s list is selective, but here’s a longer one….
    https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/gary-lineker-singled-long-list-201937853.html

    But, far from damaging the BBC, the widespread support for Lineker’s comments shows how much the Tories are hated inside and outside the corporation. It also shows how BI’s fictitious ‘taxpayer’ (how 1980s! – millions don’t pay tax but still have a voice) expects the BBC not to bow to government pressure, and to respect the free expression of views by freelancers, particularly when they involve criticism of language used by the government being redolent of 1930s Germany.

    I expect the Tories love a freelancer because they’re relatively easy to hire and fire. Now it seems they want to muzzle them too.

    As for BBC staff being very unhappy – I’m not surprised. The low pay, the creeping managerialism, the increasing attempts by government to shut them up…. Why, I know quite a few senior people at the BBC, including one journalist currently on a flagship news programme. It’s an open secret that many of the staff are uncomfortable that Lineker was initially singled out for special treatment when he’s not even a BBC employee. So, it’s hardly surprising that those on a fraction of his income will feel satisfied with the outcome when he often says what they are thinking, but not permitted to say. (Thanks, BI)

    And BI, just listen to yourself when you’re sounding off about “Lineker’s morals”. Egregious hypocrisy straight from the Daily Mail! In many respects the government you still slavishly support tries to behave just like the Qataris – they attempt to control the media, they have little respect workers’ rights, little respect for human rights, and they ignore as much as they can the kind of legislation designed to protect them. They hate anyone who opposes, and would delight in being able to shut them up Qatari style – hence the attempts to strong-arm the BBC into submission. OK, so at least they don’t use religion as a fig leaf to justify these abuses. But you really need to own these contradictions and own up.

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    in reply to: Unborn baby killed. #257099
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    Many use religion as a camouflage for hurtful and bigoted opinions, as it frequently gets them a ‘free pass’ and is excused if it’s part of someone’s faith. But it shouldn’t be. It should be called out and challenged.

    When we hear from the religious right that ‘abortion is morally wrong’, or ‘women shouldn’t have babies outside wedlock’ and so on… rather than meekly commenting ‘Oh I see, it’s your religious belief, so you can carry on exercising your rights over other people’s bodies and lives or at least supporting those organisations that do just that’, it’s important to oppose this sort of closed-minded bigotry, no matter whether the origin is Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Jedi…

    Thankfully, church and state have been separate for centuries in this country, which without doubt has enabled human rights to progress in a ways which have not been possible in many others, particularly the rights of women, gays, and minorities in general. Everyone should be grateful for this enlightenment and de-throning of religious authority, rather than longing for a return to darkness, bigotry and deference to superstition.

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    in reply to: The big problem with Hell #256772
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    It’s like with all religious concepts – the only place it exists is in people’s heads.

    in reply to: “Illegal” immigration #256771
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    It’s because of the council elections, which aren’t far away.

    To seek the votes of the frightened and angry, they have to make folk think about something other than the state of the NHS/schools/high energy prices/food shortages/dirty rivers/the cost of living and inflation/the consequences of Brexit…. and instead blame foreigners in general and refugees in particular, especially as they are so dramatically visible in small boats. Never mind the fact the Tories have had 13 years to sort this out.

    Paradoxically,the biggest consumers of this red meat live in areas where immigration is low, such as north Lincs., compared to pretty much any big town/city. That’s because if you’ve been brought up in a classroom with kids from ten different countries around you, you’d think nothing of it. Yet if you were brought up in a classroom where the kids all looked like you, talked like you and so on, you’d be much more susceptible to all the anti-immigration rhetoric/lies put about in the popular press and by parties such as UKIP.

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    Some in our society have become uncaring and cruel beyond belief, unfortunately social media is a very convenient place for them to hide.

    the British are just as bad as Americans it seems

    When it came to Brexit many Brits showed themselves as gullible/extreme as their Republican cousins. There was UKIP and their camp commanders, planning to inflict more damage on the UK than anything since the Luftwaffe, while the so-called patriots cheered them on.

    We saw it on here – BI on how great it would all be, post-Brexit, JustLes and the Or-nott the same, with that BS about sovereignty and control, chucking red meat to all the gullible flag-waving fools they knew congregated social media… “Repost on Facebook!” Remember that exhortation? I wouldn’t be surprised if some want to come round their houses for a chat about it now, such is the nature of modern politics.

    in reply to: Emma Hayes #255929
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    Good to know you’re capable of fine distinctions, AWG!

    in reply to: Emma Hayes #255908
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    ..your critical theory agenda is the only one you embrace,Gurnelista- for obvious reasons.

    So where does your God stand on sexist/racist/homphobic comments, Bill?

    in reply to: Emma Hayes #255888
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    While other understand the basics very well, but say nothing because it suits their agenda.

    in reply to: “political correctness gone mad” #255214
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    I just saw ‘Daria 27 from Ukraine’ appear under the ‘New Signings’ thread.
    Is this a new ploy to grow the attendance?

    in reply to: New signings #255006
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    Who’s Sir David Hilton White??

    https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/scunthorpe-united-sign-five-new-8104157

    I wondered the same – think it’s an error. I couldn’t find Sir DHW anywhere on the WWW.
    Speaking of titled Ironistas, what’s Baron Botham doing with himself these days?

    in reply to: Brexit Anniversary #254663
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    It’s like with religion. Any criticism – just say it’s wrong.
    Just have faith in the idea/policy/deity, and it will never be falsified.

    in reply to: Another what you been listening to thread #253947
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    We won tonight and got rid of Prawn, but it’s still grim when Sleaford Mods meet Cold War Steve…

    in reply to: Another day another dirty Tory #253688
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    Aye, and there was Farage and his camp followers, playing to the masses with their quick, easy snake-oil cure for austerity, and then the Tories followed suit, playing equally dirty to win back the votes they were losing.

    Johnson made it worse, playing to the ERG, normalising lying, breaking his own rules, and undermining the legal framework designed to keep governments accountable. Caught breaking the rules? Then we’ll tear up the rule book!

    He prioritised personal ambition over truth over decency and honesty, and the same ethic or lack of them ran through the party. Anyone with integrity was forced out or to resign, leaving the sleazy, incompetent skip fire of a government we have at present, an attitude of ‘every man for himself’ until they finally get booted out of office.

    General strike to bring on an election, anyone?

    in reply to: Idiot of the Year #253200
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    JI – I’d suggest you have a lot of unresolved, personal issues which your faith helps you to deal with.

    And that’s fine. But you also see disagreement over religious views on a lowly football website as a threat to your identity and self-esteem, which is typical of those needing professional help.

    Alas, your comments on here also suggest a number of bigoted, prejudiced opinions on women’s rights, racism, homophobia and websites preaching hate, in a perverse interpretation of Christianity.

    So, don’t be surprised when others spot all this and can’t be bothered to reply, any more than they would to an abusive drunk shouting at the South Yorks. Stagecoach.

    An objective truth is this: many on here are atheists. We recognise some folk need religion in their lives, but resent the fundamentalist preaching, especially of hate, to stoke a culture war against some of the most marginalised in society. Just get over it, JI.

    in reply to: Idiot of the Year #253188
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    <iframe title=”BBC 3CR – Iain Lee vs. Christian Bigotry” src=”https://www.youtube.com/embed/z6PZj5gSfoA?feature=oembed&#8221; allow=”accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share” allowfullscreen=”” id=”fitvid0″ frameborder=”0″></iframe>

    Interesting post 64 – it’s good to see more radio presenters actually challenging callers’ bigotry. See how the woman is moved almost to tears when her cherished views are shown to be prejudiced and intolerant under the weight of the presenter’s humanity. She knows she’s wrong but can’t bring herself to admit it.
    Others, when provoked through disagreement, become aggressive and insulting. It’s a common response when there’s psychological dissonance. The weakness of cherished beliefs is made clear and they find it deeply upsetting, but this sort of bigotry needs calling out.
    Y’know, if Jesus were alive today, he wouldn’t be a Christian.

    in reply to: Idiot of the Year #253187
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    You and your fingers discredit your religion, JI. It’s not good for your health, either, it’ll increase your heart rate and blood pressure.

    Now, pull up a chair and read carefully… you must realise there’s no point in anyone bothering to argue when your views are so unbalanced they make the Titanic look stable. It’s like debating with those who come door to door trying to recruit Jehovah’s Witnesses or some other variety. I usually recommend a good book by Mr Darwin and close the door. Anything else is a complete waste of time. And that’s what I’ll do here.

    I’ll add this though… psychiatrists really don’t argue with barmy patients, even though bigoted lunacy has not been unusual on the political right in recent years. But engaging with it has been a big failing of the BBC, particularly with its Brexit coverage. The whole campaign was based around emotion, feeling and belief – just like faith – rather than fact and reason, so alongside the experts, the corporation interviewed base idiots and fantasists in the name of ‘balance’. Ridiculous.

    Another thing is the similarity between your posts and Lesgeo’s. The same preoccupations with faith, Catholicism and Brexit. Yet, he who was once so voluble on non-football, has surely taken a vow of silence! Which is understandable, I suppose, given how things have turned out. I’m sure nobody would think you were connected.

    Now, go away, pour yourself a large scotch, settle down and listen to something soothing by Sounds Like Rain.

    in reply to: Another what you been listening to thread #253183
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    Haha, after hearing this it’s both!
    Agree with IA here, evolution does maintain interest rather than stagnation and arrogantly performing same old same old with a ‘take it or leave it’ attitude. But it sometimes poses a problem when artists want to evolve and change but fans just want the old stuff – has been a problem for Bowie, Stones, McCartney etc etc.

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    in reply to: The Tories biggest failing? #253159
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    Aye, even the blindest of followers have questioned their faith in the party and realised it was all wrong. When the facts change, when new information emerges, what else is a reasonable person to do but change their minds?

    in reply to: Another what you been listening to thread #253158
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    Amen to that! But would you agree, IA?

    in reply to: Idiot of the Year #253146
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    ‘Engaging in serious discussion with people who believe in such things is rarely fruitful because when challenged, they change the topic, shift the focus, say things weren’t interpreted correctly, etc. They get defensive and feel threatened, patronise and insult.’

    At least one thing we agree on, Gurney. So if we ever lock horns again don’t do it. You definitely managed to slime this thread in the end … it must incense you that someone laid out a reasoned and coherent faith position that pierced the dismissiveness and even drew one or two respectful comments. How about staying away from the gaslighting and caricaturing. A start would be to lay out your own personal vision and be willing to articulate it. I, for one, would promise not to ridicule, misrepresent or mock you.

    And here we have a perfect example of the kind of defensive, patronising and insulting attitude which is the hallmark of those whose beliefs are threatened.

    PS a reasoned and coherent faith position is a contradiction in terms. Reason requires facts and logic. Faith requires neither. It’s in the realm of the irrational, which you evidently prefer, JI.

    in reply to: Another what you been listening to thread #253143
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    Haha, some good comments, have to agree with most, Layla and other jukebox hits do tend to grate these days. Right too, about session musicians who never got/get the credit they deserve, like Jon Herrington in Steely Dan, or those guys that work with John Mclaughlin currently (Mbappe? and a lad from Leeds) and many, many others, like James Jameson on all those Tamla hits. Mind you, I still like that Jackson/McCartney song Say Say Say – especially the strong, tight brass on it. The stuff Macca did with Wings got terrible criticism at the time but needs revision, even Band on the Run (though not Mull of Kintyre)! ELO seemed a natural extension of that furrow, at least for a while.