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  • #258395
    fans6464
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    I hear he’s to be tried as an adult

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    #258405
    Iron-aweIron-awe
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    Will be an interesting test case for what is coming further down the line, you will have to provide your own popcorn though.

    #258418
    Deereyme66Deereyme66
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    I’ve already ordered a load more due to the strange goings on at Glanford Park.

    #258913
    Lord KitchenerLord Kitchener
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    I think you got him mixed up with sleepy Joe there. He would probably have a coronary if he was persecuted like the Trumpster is being. Trump will fight like hell, and might even use the situation to gain more political success.

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    #258915
    SideriteSiderite
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    Joe Biden, who can put together more articulate talk than Trump.

    Poor Trump persecuted for not being able to be above the law like everyone else.

    And it was Trump’s nature which caused people to be energised to vote him out in 2020 and the Republicans to have a weak midterms, so the Democrats would be quite happy for him to motivate the base.

    #258916
    SideriteSiderite
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    “Poor Trump persecuted for not being able to be above the law like everyone else.”

    That should be unlike.

    #258923
    Lord KitchenerLord Kitchener
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    You actually quoting yourself there Siderite…

    #258924
    SideriteSiderite
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    I know. I was correcting my own brain fart.

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    #258948
    Iron-aweIron-awe
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    This particular indictment will probably come to very little, a fine at most but it’s the fact that a DA has actually taken the step to indict a former President ( which is unprecedented) that’s the key. It can now pave the way for further indictments for at least two, possibly three more serious indictments about attempting to defraud an election, instigating the January 6th riot ( also described as a coup in some quarters of the USA ) and also the retention of classified documents at his Florida residence after he’d left office and the fact he had to be forced to give these up by the FBI after refusing to do so voluntarily. Should be fun times ahead for all newshounds and casual observers of American politics.

    #259007
    SideriteSiderite
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    #259010
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    A battle for the soul of America!

    I’m so glad to have the unbiased, non partisan and deeply researched analysis of IA and Sidey to straighten out my thinking.

    Yet why am I haunted by the words of the Nazi era dissident Pastor Martin Niemöller : ‘First they came for the Socialists but I am not a Socialist … so I said nothing. Then they came for the Communists but I am not a Communist … so I said nothing. Then they came for the Jews but I am not a Jew … so I said nothing. Then they came for me .. and there was no one to speak for me.’

    #259011
    SideriteSiderite
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    Thank goodness we have the totally unbiased JI here to jump in and assume I am thinking of him, and come up with the totally non-partisan interpretation that Republicans should be above the law.

    I am sure the deep research involves why dealings of Trump should never be investigated, and anyone who thinks a Republican should face investigation is the real partisan one, not JI.

    Republicans are against the law, and if you think otherwise you’re just like the Nazis. More inappropriate use of Nazi analogies. Disgusting when Linekar does it (which I did think was crass and uncalled for), but ok when it’s the right. Noted.

    #259013
    SideriteSiderite
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    It’s completely unthinkable that someone of such upstanding as Trump would engage in hush payments and falsifying business records. Surely Trump cannot possibly be corrupt? Investigating that is just like the Nazis. And this is supposedly the ‘measured’ take. Ludicrous.

    “Republicans are against the law,

    Above the law. More brain farts.

    #259029
    Iron-aweIron-awe
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    If you can offer anything in defence of Trump and the points I raised JI then by all means engage but most of what has been discussed on Trump has been debated ad nauseum in USA media for a long time now. Trumps defence is, rigged election and fake news with absolutely any evidence to back him up. You believe whatever you want, it’s your choice but either way the times ahead concerning this man will be very interesting to observe.

    #259032
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    First, Sidey …and I don’t know why this irritates me so much … it’s Lineker. Please write out 100 times til you’ve got it and put me out of my misery!!
    More seriously … my post WAS considered. I definitely didn’t jump in. I actually think that you’ve ‘gone off on one’ to some extent. Here’s why.
    Firstly … I didn’t assume that you had me in mind . I’m not a frequent poster and it hadn’t occurred to me that you might specifically be digging at me. (You weren’t were you??) I meant that ‘straightening out thinking’ bit in a generic sense. Not taken personally.
    Secondly I DO believe that Republicans should be fully subject to the rule of Law. As should Democrats. As should everyone.
    What I don’t believe is that different standards should apply with regard to scrutiny, investigation and indictment/prosecution. All are equal in the eyes of the law .. if the judicial system is uncorrupted. No one should be targeted for scrutiny, investigation and indictment on the basis of their personal or political beliefs. No one is ‘above the law’ ..and no one is ‘below the law.’ I’d need some convincing that if Trump was back in his Tower playing at being a Businessman and was not a Presidential candidate then this indictment would ever have seen the light of day. The unease being expressed across the whole spectrum in the US on this issue is well founded. There is nothing ‘ludicrous’ about these concerns.
    A final comment on your … ‘Lock her up! Lock him up! … cartoon. V amusing ..yet laden with deadly potential. I agree with the final caption but with a qualifier. ‘Going after political opponents (using the legal system for political purposes) is un-American.’ Its undemocratic, its dangerous and it’s corrosive of trust and societal harmony.
    The next couple of years are going to be very interesting. A battle for the soul of America and …because there are some very big, bad countries watching .. a battle for all of our welfare.

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    #259033
    Lord KitchenerLord Kitchener
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    What is happening to Trump now is a test case. With the buzzards circling above, they will do everything they can to get this over the line. If they manage to punish him enough, more charges will follow. But if he walks away from court still able to launch a leadership campaign, they will probably have to wait. No point chasing it now if he might well shrug them off. My bet is that they will leave it until the next elections. Not just to discredit him further, but to interfere with his campaign.

    Even then, it doesn’t come without risks…

    #259036
    SideriteSiderite
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    “More seriously … my post WAS considered.”

    I disagree. Ridiculous Nazi analogies are not measured and my disagreement isn’t going off on one. Irritated responses to spelling errors doesn’t come across as such either.

    The rest just boils down to if a Republican is being investigated it’s bad for democracy. If we investigate a Republican it’s ‘going after an opponent.’ The same people were, of course, wanting investigations into Democrats for less, so their concerns do not really concern me. Apparently what’s good for democracy is to let someone who appears corrupt get away with corruption and call for insurrection. Opposing that is what’s really bad. And bone of what you say appears reasonable outside the loonier right.

    There is a battle for he soul of American democracy, and many Republicans don’t care about it, evidently.

    #259037
    SideriteSiderite
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    All sides are equal in the law, but if Trump committed a crime it’s just like Nazi persecution really isn’t a measured position.

    #259041
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    Thanks for giving me permission to engage, IA. Also to believe what I want. Appreciated.
    I definitely don’t believe I’m engaging with an unbiased participant when I offer anything on Trump in your direction. The number of times your ‘go to’ analogy on the ‘Footie’ side … when discussing Swanny or other ‘bad actors’ .. is Trump just confirms that he’s in your head and its enjoyable for you, especially rehearsing it to others.
    The more serious indictments alluded to in your post may have been debated ‘ad nauseam’ .. including in two impeachments which were not carried and where Democrat lawyers doctored evidence .. but you’re right in saying both that the present indictment will probably come to nothing and also that the times ahead will be interesting.

    #259042
    SideriteSiderite
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    With regards to bias, I am not sure if it’s 100% possible to be unbiased when offering an opinion on a hot topic. I certainly don’t think you’re as measured or as moderate as you may believe. You may say the same as me, such as it may be, but I am not the one dipping into conspiracy laden material here. Nor am I the one who has consistently pushed an angle which makes out any action against Trump is beyond limits.

    It never was before when it came to Democrats for many, so I am sceptical of motive.

    #259043
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    Sidey. Re Nazi analogies. Did you actually read what i wrote on that subject?
    re the rest. Nope … no insurrection called for. Only in the minds of those who
    are desperate to get the Donald. A narrative spun by the Democrats and bought into by those who trust the establishment media.
    There may be plenty to dislike about Trump .. but bending the rule of law to get at him isn’t a good strategy for the future of the USA.

    #259044
    SideriteSiderite
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    Holding Donald Trump to account does not equal desperation to get at him. I did read it and don’t agree, since you crassly include this as a comparison. However, those who call for a politician to be above the law, and your excuses don’t convince, aren’t demonstrating anything but an agenda to me. It’s this which threatens US democracy. Many of the Republicans automatically see any attempt to be held to legal account as being targeted. In their world, there will be several excuses as to why they should never face consequences for corruption.

    All your arguments just boil down to Trump being political

    #259045
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    ps Wot .. no Gurney?? Doesn’t he know I’ve posted?

    pps I do think that I’m measured and moderate, Sidey. I think some of your comments ..eg ‘dipping into conspiracy laden material’ …may be sincere, but are the ‘go to’ strategy from the establishment and legacy media to denigrate and or suppress genuine concerns and debate. Conspiracies are a two way street my friend. Maybe you’re being played. I don’t think I am ..time will tell.

    #259046
    SideriteSiderite
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    Conspiracies are a two way street, yet I have alleged none. You ramble about some nefarious elite, without basis, and expect me to see you as measured and moderate. I don’t think you are being, sorry to say.

    #259050
    Iron-aweIron-awe
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    Your sarcasm is noted JI and it’s a poor response when I asked if you had any evidence to the contrary regarding Trump and what is now taking place. Jumping up and inviting Gurney to appear is baffling, what has his viewpoint got to do with you thinking Trump is being treated badly here. The law is the law and Trump will be judged by the law on however many indictments come his way and it’s noteworthy that the FBI investigation into stolen government documents by Trump comes as a result of the head of the FBI giving the green light to do so, himself a Trump appointee and called a good honest man by Trump in previous times. Hey ho the dance continues.

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    #259064
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    Sidey said ‘I am not the one dipping in to conspiracy laden theories here.’
    Then said .’Conspiracies are a two way street yet I have alleged none.’ So how .. in your world .. do these two statements reconcile???
    I am also diligently searching for my refrences to a ‘nefarious elite.’
    C’mon, Sidey. I’ve always found you honest and consistent in previous exchanges. Why does the Trump issue crash your standards?

    #259065
    HeathHeath
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    It could be because he cannot see an ounce of honesty or consistency in Trump. Can you?

    #259066
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    IA .. I have said before that I find it a waste of time going to any depth with you because you ignore what I respond with.I suppose it’s of no interest to you that every previous President has papers from his time of office and that Trump was following normal procedures and was negotiating with the Documents agency. The raid was orchestrated for maximum effect in the run up to the mid terms. Even less will you be interested in Jo Biden’s documents scattered in several locations, including his garage and the floor of his Corvette. And since they were from the time of his Vice Presidency ..were illegally held. But why would you be interested? That would not fit your narrative. You know that Trump is bad and you know that he challenges the progressive agenda .. and you know that Jo Biden is on the right side of your equation. So let ‘the law’ work to target the bad and leave the good out of it. After all …the end justifies the means!

    Oh. I’ll have to go. There’s a group of sinister looking guys knocking at my door. Hope the day doesn’t come when they also knock at yours.

    #259067
    dandaherron@yahoo.co.ukJust Iron
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    Heath. Are you really saying that anything goes when dealing with people you don’t like. Dear God. We can abandon principles of honesty and consistency if we are dealing with dishonest and inconsistent people??!! Welcome to chaos. Welcome to hell!

    #259068
    Deereyme66Deereyme66
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    If this guy comes knocking, bet he’s wearing a sling for his broken collar bone. Ouch!!

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