[Gurnelista]

Bucksiron wrote:

It is, indeed, very funny how people want us to trust their predictions. You’re absolutely correct that in 20 years they still say we need to wait. That goes for climate every bit as much as it goes for finance. They’re both non-deterministic systems with a huge number of variables, which makes predicting them in any way that is remotely accurate 100% impossible.

And that is precisely why it is essential to err on the side of caution with anything as potentially calamitous as climate change.

Your problem is tha there’s no evidence that will ever convince you BI, because you don’t want to be convinced.

It reminds me of those folk who had strong religion as children, which stays with them through adulthood. No argument will ever persuade them that their beliefs might be silly, childish, contradictory or plain wrong. That’s because they don’t want to be persuaded. The facts become irrelevant, and belief is all.

Put simply, people with such beliefs haven’t been reasoned into them, so they can’t be reasoned out of them.

It’s a mindset commonly found in cults. It can be disturbing but it’s mostly harmless, for example those gentle folk of the ‘Sounds Like Rain’ videos. The exception is when it involves violence, like with terrorism – political or religious.

So, the question is whether your manifest ‘belief’ over climate can be explained as cultish, or whether it’s just a posture adopted for political reasons. The evidence would suggest the latter – a PR background, the record in gaslighting, and of course the far-right politics… and when you were little and impressionable, we can imagine global warming wasn’t a ‘thing’ you were forced to deny.

But, there is another possibility. After being so wrong about so much for so long – support for Trump, Johnson, the Tories, Brexit, Swann, climate change and assorted other issues, it must be pretty galling to see all your cherished beliefs confounded and smashed at every turn. To admit this must make the holder feel nothing short of ridiculous, a laughing stock, a clown-car of values and arguments, the wrongest person in wrongland! But denial is one way of dealing it. So, which assumption is correct, BI?

[Gurnelista]

SOS wrote:

“Disadvantaged? Not around Scunthorpe… have you seen the cars parked up on Sunday mornings? It’s very much a middle class domain nowadays.”

[/quote]

Being able to afford an old Mercedes doesn’t make the owner middle class, SOS! Same if the Merc is spanking new and fresh off the forecourt. Money and social background are completely different things.

My point was that as well as producing the occasional professional player, the club’s academy has an important role in the community. It’s different for a worldwide brand like MCFC which, apart from producing the occasional world-class player, also does other things like generate international interest in the club, which is important for merchandising, tv, etc. and (probably) has other financial advantages, such as tax.

[Gurnelista]

It’s so often the case that the party in power lose elections, rather than the opposition winning them.

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Siderite

[Gurnelista]

Thing is BS, you’re playing the government’s game here. As an older person living up north, you’re probably quite if not very dependent on the state for a pension, for hospitals, doctors, nurses and maybe social care too, as well as emergency services like ambulances if you’re suddenly unwell, or police if you have a burglary, etc. You also want your kids to have opportunities to travel, work, and generally make their way in the world.

Because all these are being cut to the bone or no longer available, you’re basically being attacked by your own government. Your health will suffer, your security will suffer, your finances will suffer, as will the wellbeing of those around you.

Of course, the government doesn’t want you to complain, particularly about them, after 12 years of incompetence. It would rather you moaned about something else….. like foreign workers who want to come here to do the kinds of jobs mentioned above!

But this perspective isn’t one you’ll get in the distorted lens of the right wing media… no, they’ll encourage you to look away from parliament and focus on ‘illegal’ kids in dinghies, rather than how much the government is attacking you and your community with economic incompetence and terrorism.

Think about it BS, when you’re walking past the boarded-up town centre, and see people scurrying along from the charity shop to the pound shop to the food bank to the warm bank, think just how much it resembles a war zone. These are the real problems in your life, and they have their origin not in far away countries, but in Downing St.

[Gurnelista]

I think Matt Dean probably meant that you need to look at the wider social and personal benefits of academies, rather than just the miniscule chance of a player signing a professional contract. For example, teaching youngsters to keep fit and active, as well as learning basic transferable skills like following instructions, learning how to deal with setbacks, empathising with others and so on, ‘soft’ skills but important ones, which will stay with them a lifetime.

Many of the kids passing through academies aren’t the most successful at school and often come from disadvantaged families where these skills aren’t sufficiently developed. But, learning them through football gives them a chance to grow in ways they may not have done otherwise.

Clubs have a broader social and sporting responsibility to their communities than just providing a match every other Saturday. This was part of sport’s original mission, before it became a business. Academies are one way in which they still fulfil these, and as such they’re a valuable community asset.

Importance of Football Academies

https://www.wemakefootballers.com/news/the-social-benefits-of-football-for-children

Top 10 Benefits of Football Camps for a Child’s Development

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Northumbiron

[Gurnelista]

And rightly so, if the claims are based on nothing, and just personal opinion, like we often see on here.

However, the claims made in the book about the royals are almost all backed up with sources where the information first appeared. Some are so detrimental to their image there would be grounds for lawsuits, had proof not been available.

[Gurnelista]

I suspect it’s already too late.

The developing countries are picking up the tab for our profligacy with failed crops, dried up water supplies, rising sea levels, uninhabitable areas of land and more. But perhaps the most significant causal factor is prejudiced, ridiculous and inadequate armchair polemicists along with a powerful right-wing lobby, who for years have denied what was happening, ignored the science or vacillated over what to do.

Nothing will ever convince them, because they are cultists. They are not interested in the science, and as such should be ignored.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_denial

[Gurnelista]

Aye, it applies to a lot of the forelock-tuggers up here, where forelocks tend to be very long….

It’s a strange thing, and quite a British one. People vote for all kinds of daft reasons, but maybe this has its roots in class and a way of thinking which says ‘I identify as middle-class so I should vote Tory’ or ‘The Tories were born to rule, unlike that Labour Party hoi polloi, which are no better than me’ or something similar, even though it means they’ll make themselves worse off.

Turkeys and Chrismas spring to mind.

[Gurnelista]

It’s a small gesture from one of the wealthiest people in the country.
Read that book above (which is well supported with evidence, not just a polemic) and see what it says about Charles – the tax dodges, attitudes to staff, hypocrisy about the environment and wildlife, and a lot more besides about him and all the other royals.

If you aren’t already, you’ll be up for a revolution.

[Gurnelista]

Some context??

[Gurnelista]

Aye, I remember some saying they’d turn their backs if it happened at GP. Christians too, allegedly.

[Gurnelista]

And many who did so last time were / are northerners and elderly, for whom the party has done nothing but make things worse – through inflation, reduced benefits, chaotic hospitals, fewer doctors, understaffed care homes, lower pensions, longer waiting times for ambulances and police.. it does beg the question as to why those profoundly dependent on the state would vote for a party dedicated to making it smaller.

[Gurnelista]

Disappointing response from the Christian soldiers here, particularly when some
seem happy enough to put forward their far-right views alongside religious belief, just witness BPG’s support elsewhere on here for ‘othering’ the Albanian waiter!

And, how was it possible to support Johnson, given his depravity? Or the Tory party in general these days, given its drift to the far-right, its attitude towards foreigners, the poor and less well off?

The same with support for Trump, in spite of his obscene flaunting of wealth, his lying, his disrespect for women, non-Americans and the poor. Just how is it possible to reconcile politics and religion here?

And here’s another thing; how is it that those who claim to care passionately about the irreligious nature of abortion (‘How can you kill a person?’ they cry) often support the death penalty, and often really couldn’t care less about the welfare of anybody except people like themselves?

So, come on you Christian Tories, the irreligious hordes of this board want some answers.

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Iron-awe

[Gurnelista]

And now for something considerably different… anyone see the BB King doc ‘Life of Riley’ at the weekend? It played out to this infectious little gem from 1967…

[Gurnelista]

Anyone who still thinks they haven’t a problem with monarchy, its cost and influence, should read this…

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Iron-awe

[Gurnelista]

Bucksiron wrote:

Absolute tosh, Gurny. What’s happening with Germany and the EU isn’t happening elsewhere in the world. There is only one EU…..
Its two major economies are at serious risk of collapse given the situation on energy and are praying for a warm winter to keep gas and electricity use down, which is rather ironic to say the least.

BI emits more bilge by the day. The sick man of Bru. The only economy at risk of collapse is the British one!

Part of your problem is that you’ve got your priorities wrong. Look, if one of your neighbours lights a bonfire and some smoke comes through your window, only a madman says ‘let’s abandon the house, we’re off, we’re going to live under the bridge at the end of the road where nobody can bother us…’ Well, you did!

Or, if you’re a member of the Football League and some clubs go into administration, there’s no sense in saying ‘let’s leave the league, we’re off, we’re going to play our own game with our own rules, we can decide who we play and what the rules will be…’
Complete total and utter stupidity.

[/quote]

Bucksiron wrote:

All you ever do is claim everything’s down to the Daily Mail and ‘liars’, which is absurd.

Not as absurd as your non-argument leaving the EU. When are you going to reveal a benefit of it – we’re still waiting.

In any case, you should get some reading lessons – it’s widely known that apart from the Mail and other papers, concerted campaigns to lie about Brexit were organised on Facebook and social media, as well as in government itself. Not least on here, as JI/Les recognise only too well.

Bucksiron wrote:

As for quoting polls, are you serious? They’re about as reliable as SUFC’s defence.

I think that was NI.
Try posting when sober.

Dear old BPG, do you ever hear voices when there’s nobody around?

[Gurnelista]

We can imagine how that ‘interview’ went….

“What made you pick up the phone, Bucksiron?

So you say there’s a race
Of men in the trees.
You’re for tough legislation.
Thanks for calling,
I wait all night for calls like these”

(D. Fagen)

It’s rare to find someone as consistently wrong about absolutely everything, but BI takes the biscuit. An interesting question is whether he knows this, and is deliberately gaslighting and lying for political purposes, or whether he inhabits a completely different reality to that of most of us, in which case he needs help.

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Deereyme66

[Gurnelista]

DM, I’ve a soft spot for Lisa S. too, after seeing her at a warm-up gig in a small club in London, prior to a tour a few years back. Renditions of all her big songs were faithful to the originals and sung from the heart, but ‘Change’ brought the house down, with loyal fans singing along like they wanted to be on stage themselves…

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Deereyme66

[Gurnelista]

Germany has announced a support package which goes way beyond anything offered by the Sunak government. Some countries have been critical of it, because it may affect the help they can offer, and that’s been the extent of ‘disunity’.

Germany rolls out £177bn support package to ease soaring energy bills

So where is the benefit to the UK being outside the EU? You still haven’t answered the question because there isn’t one, there isn’t anything which can justify the economic and social self-harm done by the country to itself.

Almost everyone with a functioning brain acknowledges this. It cannot be denied. Nobody says it is the only cause of all the bad stuff, but the bad stuff is all made worse because of it.

It was brought about with lies, cons, deceit and dishonesty, much of it at the highest level, as Tory MPs prioritised loyalty to the far right and their own personal ambition, over truth, decency and honesty. Same with the jonnies on here. Brexit pursued the racist vote and was achieved by telling a lot of lies, dividing the country, and giving false hopes about the way it could be improved. As such, it needs a public enquiry. The press know the BS that was put about, and were part of it – no wonder they want everyone to move on.

It has made almost everyone poorer. There should be penalties and punishments for the liars, yet one of them became PM!

[Gurnelista]

The French do virtually nothing to stop what’s happening, yet presumably that’s OK?

[/quote]

It’s the ‘whatabout’ again! You need a new tactic BI.

[Gurnelista]

And now he’s off to Egypt for the climate summit!
Boris is going and Charles is having his own so, ermm….

[Gurnelista]

Historians of the future will find it incredible that people inhaled stuff from the Daily Mail and actually believed it; that people like Trump, Johnson, Farage, Hannan and co. were ever taken seriously, and that complete BS stories concocted on social media by persons unknown were repeated among the general population as if they were incontrovertible truths.

Depressingly easy to manipulate yet stubborn in their insistence that only THEY know what’s really going on, there are many on here who fell victim to that, to the multiple fake identities, when it was no more than a singleton in his bedroom with trousers round his ankles, putting about total fiction to curry grace and favour from their dictator boss.

Offering false, comforting answers to complicated problems and simple solutions based on lies and bigotry, has always been a way forward for the far right. It’s also been a business model like no other for Murdoch and company.

[Gurnelista]

Back on topic, of course there are problems abroad as well as at home. Just look at the inter-related nature of international business, and the way issues effortlessly cross borders at the click of a mouse – inflation, recession, shortages… Look at the human side too – migration, homelessness, homophobia, racism and the rise of the far-right. And then of course, there’s the environment and global warming.

Fact is, you can’t get away from any of this. You can’t just withdraw and lock your door and go back to the 1970s, or was it the 1950s or 1850s, and say ‘that’s it, it’s done with’. No, the only way is forward, and tackling these global problems effectively means forming strong international alliances and co-operating to defeat these challenges together, just as this country and others did during times of world war.

It’s so obvious to all that it almost doesn’t need saying that Brexit has been a catastrophic mistake. The UK was conned and allowed itself to be led by liars, clowns and donkeys and now we’re all poorer for it, except for a few very wealthy media people and far right Tories who wanted it all along. But hey, the rest of us have got our fish and blue passports.

Internationally, the country has become a joke, and it ain’t funny. Still not sure? Thirty years to decide if it’s been worth it? Imagine if people were saying the same about Swann.

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Heath

[Gurnelista]

Just Iron wrote:

There’s certainly plenty of evidence/activity across the EU to indicate that all may not be well in coming years.

Well that’s true of pretty much every economy everywhere, JI! But it’s an argument for caution, rather than taking reckless decisions with consequences as disasterous, profound and far-reaching as leaving the EU.

And, we’re not just talking about the economic aspects. The lies that were told have divided the country, communities and families, from Northern Ireland to our own back yards, not least because of the racism this has brought to the fore.

It was a stupid, stupid plan but it worked because of the lies about some kind of promised land that were put about, not least by some so-called Christians on here, lies and liars which have now been exposed and debunked.

I hope your op went well and you do find this post clear and concise.

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Just Iron

[Gurnelista]

The country’s EU membership was like membership of many clubs/associations/organisations – it requires you to abide by the rules, as well as take part in the making of them through your own representatives.

It’s a bit like a football club being a member of the F.A. or the Football League. If you want to compete with other clubs, you can’t just make up your own rules on say, the size of the goal, the application of the offside rule, or choose who you want to play against.

Sometimes the EU rules seem unfair or unfavourable for Britain, other times it’s just the opposite, and other countries complain.

While it wasn’t always to Britain’s benefit, overall and without doubt there were way more advantages than disadvantages to membership than being alone in the universe, as we’ve seen since leaving.

It’s important not to let ‘perfect’ be the enemy of the good. Unfortunately, that’s what Farage and the Tory far-right managed to do, getting the country where it is today – completely out of control.

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Northumbiron, Just Iron, Deereyme66

[Gurnelista]

Probably a heresy to the purist, but I rather liked Madonna’s excursion into the field with this ‘countrydelica’…

[Gurnelista]

I find these country sounds are great if you listen to them while making a long trip by road or train. They’re a great accompaniment to whiling away the hours and watching the scenery go by, particularly if you’re abroad. But to me they never sound quite right when listening at home. Has anyone else a similar experience?

[Gurnelista]

Cold War Steve on point as usual….

https://twitter.com/coldwarsteve?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

[Gurnelista]

Bucksiron wrote:

Ah yes, of course, just blame everything on Brexit. Yawn.

The ‘yawn’ says it all. You’re badly out of touch BI, like the rest of the party.

But pretending you couldn’t care less is dangerous for the Tories’ future.

It’s precisely the out-of-date attitude of people like yourself towards the environment, towards Europe and towards the economy, that trust and confidence has been eroded among younger voters, who can only remember 12 years of austerity, Brexit lies and nastiness. For this demographic at least, the Conservative brand has been effectively shredded.

The brighter Tories understand this, and post-election if not before, they will be baying for the blood of yourself and other blue gammons whose crass, indifferent selfishness and dislike of everything except themselves will condemn the party to powerlessness for decades.

[Gurnelista]

Did she beat the lettuce?

[Author]

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