[Gurnelista]

It’s a small gesture from one of the wealthiest people in the country.
Read that book above (which is well supported with evidence, not just a polemic) and see what it says about Charles – the tax dodges, attitudes to staff, hypocrisy about the environment and wildlife, and a lot more besides about him and all the other royals.

If you aren’t already, you’ll be up for a revolution.

[Gurnelista]

Some context??

[Gurnelista]

Aye, I remember some saying they’d turn their backs if it happened at GP. Christians too, allegedly.

[Gurnelista]

And many who did so last time were / are northerners and elderly, for whom the party has done nothing but make things worse – through inflation, reduced benefits, chaotic hospitals, fewer doctors, understaffed care homes, lower pensions, longer waiting times for ambulances and police.. it does beg the question as to why those profoundly dependent on the state would vote for a party dedicated to making it smaller.

[Gurnelista]

Disappointing response from the Christian soldiers here, particularly when some
seem happy enough to put forward their far-right views alongside religious belief, just witness BPG’s support elsewhere on here for ‘othering’ the Albanian waiter!

And, how was it possible to support Johnson, given his depravity? Or the Tory party in general these days, given its drift to the far-right, its attitude towards foreigners, the poor and less well off?

The same with support for Trump, in spite of his obscene flaunting of wealth, his lying, his disrespect for women, non-Americans and the poor. Just how is it possible to reconcile politics and religion here?

And here’s another thing; how is it that those who claim to care passionately about the irreligious nature of abortion (‘How can you kill a person?’ they cry) often support the death penalty, and often really couldn’t care less about the welfare of anybody except people like themselves?

So, come on you Christian Tories, the irreligious hordes of this board want some answers.

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Iron-awe

[Gurnelista]

And now for something considerably different… anyone see the BB King doc ‘Life of Riley’ at the weekend? It played out to this infectious little gem from 1967…

[Gurnelista]

Anyone who still thinks they haven’t a problem with monarchy, its cost and influence, should read this…

1 user thanked author for this post.

Iron-awe

[Gurnelista]

Bucksiron wrote:

Absolute tosh, Gurny. What’s happening with Germany and the EU isn’t happening elsewhere in the world. There is only one EU…..
Its two major economies are at serious risk of collapse given the situation on energy and are praying for a warm winter to keep gas and electricity use down, which is rather ironic to say the least.

BI emits more bilge by the day. The sick man of Bru. The only economy at risk of collapse is the British one!

Part of your problem is that you’ve got your priorities wrong. Look, if one of your neighbours lights a bonfire and some smoke comes through your window, only a madman says ‘let’s abandon the house, we’re off, we’re going to live under the bridge at the end of the road where nobody can bother us…’ Well, you did!

Or, if you’re a member of the Football League and some clubs go into administration, there’s no sense in saying ‘let’s leave the league, we’re off, we’re going to play our own game with our own rules, we can decide who we play and what the rules will be…’
Complete total and utter stupidity.

[/quote]

Bucksiron wrote:

All you ever do is claim everything’s down to the Daily Mail and ‘liars’, which is absurd.

Not as absurd as your non-argument leaving the EU. When are you going to reveal a benefit of it – we’re still waiting.

In any case, you should get some reading lessons – it’s widely known that apart from the Mail and other papers, concerted campaigns to lie about Brexit were organised on Facebook and social media, as well as in government itself. Not least on here, as JI/Les recognise only too well.

Bucksiron wrote:

As for quoting polls, are you serious? They’re about as reliable as SUFC’s defence.

I think that was NI.
Try posting when sober.

Dear old BPG, do you ever hear voices when there’s nobody around?

[Gurnelista]

We can imagine how that ‘interview’ went….

“What made you pick up the phone, Bucksiron?

So you say there’s a race
Of men in the trees.
You’re for tough legislation.
Thanks for calling,
I wait all night for calls like these”

(D. Fagen)

It’s rare to find someone as consistently wrong about absolutely everything, but BI takes the biscuit. An interesting question is whether he knows this, and is deliberately gaslighting and lying for political purposes, or whether he inhabits a completely different reality to that of most of us, in which case he needs help.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Deereyme66

[Gurnelista]

DM, I’ve a soft spot for Lisa S. too, after seeing her at a warm-up gig in a small club in London, prior to a tour a few years back. Renditions of all her big songs were faithful to the originals and sung from the heart, but ‘Change’ brought the house down, with loyal fans singing along like they wanted to be on stage themselves…

1 user thanked author for this post.

Deereyme66

[Gurnelista]

Germany has announced a support package which goes way beyond anything offered by the Sunak government. Some countries have been critical of it, because it may affect the help they can offer, and that’s been the extent of ‘disunity’.

Germany rolls out £177bn support package to ease soaring energy bills

So where is the benefit to the UK being outside the EU? You still haven’t answered the question because there isn’t one, there isn’t anything which can justify the economic and social self-harm done by the country to itself.

Almost everyone with a functioning brain acknowledges this. It cannot be denied. Nobody says it is the only cause of all the bad stuff, but the bad stuff is all made worse because of it.

It was brought about with lies, cons, deceit and dishonesty, much of it at the highest level, as Tory MPs prioritised loyalty to the far right and their own personal ambition, over truth, decency and honesty. Same with the jonnies on here. Brexit pursued the racist vote and was achieved by telling a lot of lies, dividing the country, and giving false hopes about the way it could be improved. As such, it needs a public enquiry. The press know the BS that was put about, and were part of it – no wonder they want everyone to move on.

It has made almost everyone poorer. There should be penalties and punishments for the liars, yet one of them became PM!

[Gurnelista]

The French do virtually nothing to stop what’s happening, yet presumably that’s OK?

[/quote]

It’s the ‘whatabout’ again! You need a new tactic BI.

[Gurnelista]

And now he’s off to Egypt for the climate summit!
Boris is going and Charles is having his own so, ermm….

[Gurnelista]

Historians of the future will find it incredible that people inhaled stuff from the Daily Mail and actually believed it; that people like Trump, Johnson, Farage, Hannan and co. were ever taken seriously, and that complete BS stories concocted on social media by persons unknown were repeated among the general population as if they were incontrovertible truths.

Depressingly easy to manipulate yet stubborn in their insistence that only THEY know what’s really going on, there are many on here who fell victim to that, to the multiple fake identities, when it was no more than a singleton in his bedroom with trousers round his ankles, putting about total fiction to curry grace and favour from their dictator boss.

Offering false, comforting answers to complicated problems and simple solutions based on lies and bigotry, has always been a way forward for the far right. It’s also been a business model like no other for Murdoch and company.

[Gurnelista]

Back on topic, of course there are problems abroad as well as at home. Just look at the inter-related nature of international business, and the way issues effortlessly cross borders at the click of a mouse – inflation, recession, shortages… Look at the human side too – migration, homelessness, homophobia, racism and the rise of the far-right. And then of course, there’s the environment and global warming.

Fact is, you can’t get away from any of this. You can’t just withdraw and lock your door and go back to the 1970s, or was it the 1950s or 1850s, and say ‘that’s it, it’s done with’. No, the only way is forward, and tackling these global problems effectively means forming strong international alliances and co-operating to defeat these challenges together, just as this country and others did during times of world war.

It’s so obvious to all that it almost doesn’t need saying that Brexit has been a catastrophic mistake. The UK was conned and allowed itself to be led by liars, clowns and donkeys and now we’re all poorer for it, except for a few very wealthy media people and far right Tories who wanted it all along. But hey, the rest of us have got our fish and blue passports.

Internationally, the country has become a joke, and it ain’t funny. Still not sure? Thirty years to decide if it’s been worth it? Imagine if people were saying the same about Swann.

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Heath

[Gurnelista]

Just Iron wrote:

There’s certainly plenty of evidence/activity across the EU to indicate that all may not be well in coming years.

Well that’s true of pretty much every economy everywhere, JI! But it’s an argument for caution, rather than taking reckless decisions with consequences as disasterous, profound and far-reaching as leaving the EU.

And, we’re not just talking about the economic aspects. The lies that were told have divided the country, communities and families, from Northern Ireland to our own back yards, not least because of the racism this has brought to the fore.

It was a stupid, stupid plan but it worked because of the lies about some kind of promised land that were put about, not least by some so-called Christians on here, lies and liars which have now been exposed and debunked.

I hope your op went well and you do find this post clear and concise.

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Just Iron

[Gurnelista]

The country’s EU membership was like membership of many clubs/associations/organisations – it requires you to abide by the rules, as well as take part in the making of them through your own representatives.

It’s a bit like a football club being a member of the F.A. or the Football League. If you want to compete with other clubs, you can’t just make up your own rules on say, the size of the goal, the application of the offside rule, or choose who you want to play against.

Sometimes the EU rules seem unfair or unfavourable for Britain, other times it’s just the opposite, and other countries complain.

While it wasn’t always to Britain’s benefit, overall and without doubt there were way more advantages than disadvantages to membership than being alone in the universe, as we’ve seen since leaving.

It’s important not to let ‘perfect’ be the enemy of the good. Unfortunately, that’s what Farage and the Tory far-right managed to do, getting the country where it is today – completely out of control.

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Northumbiron, Just Iron, Deereyme66

[Gurnelista]

Probably a heresy to the purist, but I rather liked Madonna’s excursion into the field with this ‘countrydelica’…

[Gurnelista]

I find these country sounds are great if you listen to them while making a long trip by road or train. They’re a great accompaniment to whiling away the hours and watching the scenery go by, particularly if you’re abroad. But to me they never sound quite right when listening at home. Has anyone else a similar experience?

[Gurnelista]

Cold War Steve on point as usual….

https://twitter.com/coldwarsteve?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

[Gurnelista]

Bucksiron wrote:

Ah yes, of course, just blame everything on Brexit. Yawn.

The ‘yawn’ says it all. You’re badly out of touch BI, like the rest of the party.

But pretending you couldn’t care less is dangerous for the Tories’ future.

It’s precisely the out-of-date attitude of people like yourself towards the environment, towards Europe and towards the economy, that trust and confidence has been eroded among younger voters, who can only remember 12 years of austerity, Brexit lies and nastiness. For this demographic at least, the Conservative brand has been effectively shredded.

The brighter Tories understand this, and post-election if not before, they will be baying for the blood of yourself and other blue gammons whose crass, indifferent selfishness and dislike of everything except themselves will condemn the party to powerlessness for decades.

[Gurnelista]

Did she beat the lettuce?

[Gurnelista]

It oozes ‘Me me me’!

[Gurnelista]

THAT IS A DISGRACE!

[Gurnelista]

And for ‘delivering’ a country that’s fallen into a death spiral just like the club.
That is a disgrace!

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Sharp_Shooter24

[Gurnelista]

Siderite wrote:

I agree that Suella Braverman and the like signal to that kind of divisive mentality among some Tories, but I don’t want to make broad statements about all Tories. It’s perfectly possible to have good intentions, but be mistaken (from the perspective of someone who disagrees).

Yes you’re right Sid, when I said ‘good Tory’ I had in mind those sat on the party front bench, the ruthlessly ambitious careerists. There are others who appear normal and well balanced, like Helen Wakely, and just maybe Penny Mordaunt, who looks particularly uncomfortable at what she’s currently being asked to do. But these are exceptions in the current administration, that seems to be staffed by sociopaths, narcissists and loonies.

[Gurnelista]

Bucksiron wrote:

Net zero is driving poverty.

No, it’s the Tories driving and DELIVERING poverty! It’s a deliveroo government, according to Truss!

You haven’t learnt a thing have you BI, since about 1983? You’ll look through this and other threads before again denying global warming, trying but failing to argue why it should be ignored, and demonstrating a wilful ignorance of the current crisis, chaos and failure of government.

Nothing is going well precisely because this is the kind of attitude which has prevailed among the blue lot for the last 12 years. A belief, simply a belief, that free markets can solve all the problems, and a feeling among MP’s that they are entitled to do whatever they like, and sod the rest. And look today, yet another one has been up to something she shouldn’t and leaves in disgrace.

But there’s another aspect to the decline of the blue lot. It’s this. That to be a Tory you just have to hate people. The woke, trade unions, unelected bureaucrats, cyclists, lazy workers, the poor, teachers, immigrants, Meghan Markle, the tofu-eating Islingtonians… etc. etc. to distract voters from the catastrophe they’ve inflicted on the country.

The other side of being a good Tory is self – excessive, inordinate love of self… you can see it rampant across the party, and of course among a few followers not a million miles from this board.

[Gurnelista]

A new low.
Also known as Corinne Stockheath and Sebastian Fox. Probably adviser to Jonnie on the usefulness of doppelgangers.

[Gurnelista]

Poor old BI tries turning every which way in a bid to appear credible and the result is a word salad full of unconnected points. The one about lack of growth is familiar tho’ – Tory MPs are currently using this one in media interviews, but rather more accurately they claim that stagnation goes back to 2010 or so, in which case they have a point. Any further and they don’t, as Heathy points out above.

This problem of low growth is no surprise when we consider how those on no and low incomes have been used as a petri dish for free-market economics. The question has been ‘would free markets lead to growth and provide an escape route from austerity?’ Well, no, they’ve conspicuously failed. Those of us who inhabit reality know that untrammelled wealth and raging free markets does not mean everyone will get rich. It does not mean a few small crumbs of Thick Lizzie’s wealth will come tumbling down onto your little table, BI, as we’ve seen.

To keep thinking otherwise is to treat free market economics as a religion, a matter of belief. But, the fetishizing of markets is a dangerous thing. Reality won’t adapt to your desires, as we’ve seen with Brexit. This statement of the obvious is obvious to all except the fanatics. The ‘invisible hand’ of Adam Smith is the dead hand of zero growth in 2022.

But if there’s any cold comfort in ‘dead hands’, it’s that we are witnessing the last dying throes of this zombie government. It will probably stagger on, kicking and wretching its way from crisis to crisis for the next few months, but then it’ll be over.

These crises has been largely self-inflicted because the party has no idea what it stands for these days. We’ve seen how 2011-2015 there was a loss of direction of travel. Faced with egregious market failure, the party didn’t know what to do – turn left, turn further to the right, or steer a middle course. The loonies grabbed the wheel, lurched further right and blamed Brussels, rather than their own mistakes. And post-2015, everything was couched in terms of ‘leave or remain’, no matter how economically illiterate, unfair or bonkers.

There was also progressively poor leadership, going from bad to worse, and a loss of self-discipline in the party, from Cameron to May to Johnson… and now Truss.

Some say Truss should’ve crushed the wets in her party, Thatcher-style. But that would have exacerbated the Tory problem. Silence all diverse opinions, promote the yes-men, surround yourself with equally myopic loyalists (like Johnson did), and you’re doomed to failure (like Johnson was). It’s what Prawn did with the SUFC board. And as we’ve seen with country and club, you end up going off a cliff.

There’s a business lesson here for you Bucksiron, one F.O.C. And it ain’t pretty.

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Heath

[Gurnelista]

Bucksiron wrote:

I’m not missing anything, Gurny, wilfully or otherwise.

First you miss the point, now your point isn’t clear at all. You twist this way and that, quoting irrelevant stats just like you used to with climate change denial. At least that rubbish has stopped now.

Mostly tho’, you try to frighten folk by mentioning the ‘downside’, ‘the problem’, and ‘the big impact’ of overseas workers, and by quoting numbers of elderly who were overseas-born (a “big number”!!), as if these people were somehow undeserving, even though they’ve lived and worked here for most of their lives, mostly after being invited to come here to fix things others have broken, clean things they’ve made dirty, and look after those who can’t look after themselves while suffering a tide of abuse and marginalisation.

As for those born abroad who are now aged 26-64 – most would have been brought here by their parents when very young whether they wanted to come to Britain or not, or else they were born here but didn’t qualify for a British passport. Others would have been EU citizens already working here before Brexit, such as Irish and French. So, just what is your point?

Public services? Are you really suggesting those born overseas should be refused access to them? For example, access to education, health care or emergency services, simply because they haven’t paid as much tax as some others? What about the British born workers who also earn little, like the multitude needing in-work credits? Are you really suggesting they should have less access to schools for their families, doctors for their children, subsidised housing, and so on, because they don’t pay as much tax as some high earners?

If you want to increase the number of workers from overseas, then you have to expand the services we all need and depend on, just as should happen if the birth rate increases.

Yet oddly, despite the ‘downside’ and ‘problem’ of overseas workers, and despite your support for Brexit, you say you’re “all for” immigration! With that sort of understanding, I’m surprised you can tie your own shoelaces! In fact your hypocritical contortions know no limits and are all too typical of the dreadful lies and mismanagement the country has suffered in the past 12 years, which you have consistently supported, no matter how malodorous or incompetent. Ashamed, you should indeed be.

[Author]

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