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  • in reply to: Scunthorpe 2.0 #287035
    GurnelistaGurnelista
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    The Scots never had good ‘keepers.

    in reply to: Who would have thought it! #287034
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    in reply to: You wouldn’t believe it #286115
    GurnelistaGurnelista
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    Give over, the both of you! It’s like two bald men arguing over a comb!

    Just forget the mumbo-jumbo and stick to the ethos – all faiths except the most fundamental share the same, basically humanist values such as compassion, forgiveness, honesty, etc. It’s the mumbo-jumbo that kills.

    Iain Banks puts it well in his book ‘The Quarry’. His character Guy, the father of an autistic youth, is dying of cancer, and comments:

    “I shall not miss being part of a species lamentably ready to resort to torture, rape and mass murder, just because some other fucker or fuckers is or are slightly different from those intent on doing such harm, be it because they happen to worship a slightly different set of superstitious idiocies, possess a skin occupying a different position on a Pantone racial colour wheel, or had the fucking temerity to pop out of a womb on the other side of a river, ocean, mountain range, other major geographical feature, or indeed, just a straight line drawn across the desert by some bored and ignorant bureaucrat, umpteen thousand miles away and a century ago. Frankly it’s a relief to be shot of the necessity to be watching such bollocks play out.”

    in reply to: You wouldn’t believe it #285983
    GurnelistaGurnelista
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    Bill, you ask this question about where values come from if there is nobody effectively in charge of it all. The short answer is that the origins of morality lie within us all, they are a product of biological and cultural evolution, just like religion.

    As for JI’s comment, you’re talking in tongues again, not sure what you’re on about.

    But, human rights and the freedom to believe in whatever, are important. People can and will believe in all sorts of weird things, but creeds based on a pre-modern understanding of the world, such as the idiot evangelists and their representatives in the film, have no place in public / political life. This is not the Middle East, and anyone who believes in Armageddon, second comings, while denying evolution, is seriously unfit for any kind of public role.

    Point is, we deserve to know what our elected representatives really think. Do they really believe in this type of superstition, mythology and mumbo jumbo? Some would resent being open about it, perhaps aggressively. But as above, the violent ones won’t be the atheists.
    So, let’s hear it for reason and science, and get rid of prejudice and racism for which religion is so often used as a fig-leaf.

    in reply to: You wouldn’t believe it #285941
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    Aye aye-ey, I was baptised and went had a taste of it all at school and to some extent at home. Soon gave up on it though, particularly when abroad and seeing the similarities common to decent human behaviour everywhere, and the way people basically inherit their superstition from the state. Oh, and learning about the history of religious thought; how it was basically a pre-scientific story to help people understand the universe – how pretty much every country and community had its own version until they were conquered and forced to adopt the story of the rulers.

    As for JI’s point, passing on values to kids such as honesty and kindness – which we all do or should – is quite different to indoctrinating them with mythology.

    If someone in the media or public life comes out with wacky beliefs they rightly get called out for it, David Icke for one, Glen Hoddle for another.

    More important tho’, is when it involves our public representatives such as MP’s. Yet, for some reason the religious ones get away with it, like the ‘Lords Spiritual’, despite having crazy ideas about second comings and goings and even denying evolution!

    Nobody would take seriously a person who believed, say, that babies are brought to families by a stork, or that the dead return as insects. Why should it be any different with those holding views based on superstition?

    The main problem is, I suppose, that by declaring their atheism and challenging a religious view of the world, many would be worried about losing their electoral popularity and privilege. And they may lose much more. If they put their cards on the table and honestly called out the craziness of Christianity or any other superstition, as many folk did with Hoddle, Icke and their like, they might need start wearing a bullet-proof vest.

    But it wouldn’t be any atheist who’s holding the weapon.

    in reply to: You wouldn’t believe it #285904
    GurnelistaGurnelista
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    Nahh, the obsessives/crazies are the evangelicals. The proof is in your last line of your post.

    Just take a step back and imagine you’ve come to Earth from another planet, and you see the chaos, death and destruction in Gaza, human beings who look and live in quite similar ways, yet one side believes in one kind of superstition, and the other believes in a different one.

    We need to hear more atheist voices in government and education speaking out against pre-modern ideas about the world, to bring some sanity.

    It often starts when kids are young and impressionable. Children shouldn’t have a religion forced on them. Let them find one later, if they want.

    People should be free to believe in whatever – Jedi, Jesus or Boris Johnson, but when it comes to telling lies and waging war over it, they need to be kept in check.

    Further removing religion from politics and public life, and a greater spreading of the word about evolution and a scientific understanding the human condition would be a significant step in the right direction. If that sounds radical, it illustrates how far down the religious rabbit hole some of us currently are.

    in reply to: You wouldn’t believe it #285894
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    Its disturbing how religions brain wash and exert control over people in the name of a mythical being

    Aye, how can these people call themselves rational when they deny evolution, and have all these strange ideas about Armageddon and a ‘second coming’ of the one they call Jesus??? It’s as if Darwin had never existed!

    There should be more radical atheism campaigning to rid the world of religious belief, especially this totally bonkers fundamental kind. How can people think this nonsense is true?

    Then again, I suspect many of those in the film don’t really ‘believe’ very much. It’s as if something has gone wrong in their lives and going to church and cheering gives them a kind of support and communal feeling which they don’t get elsewhere.

    in reply to: New broom sweeps clean #285837
    GurnelistaGurnelista
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    Dictionary
    Definitions from Oxford Languages.
    noun DEROGATORY

    “A well-meaning but unrealistic or interfering philanthropist or reformer.
    “they were not going to welcome bossy do-gooders from far away telling them how to run their lives”
    Let’s hear it for ‘those who do good’ – not the above.

    That’s certainly one – but not the only – definition of the term.

    True, Apollo.

    The OL definition is missing something. In fact, ‘do-gooders’ is up there with ‘nanny state’. Both are expressions used sneeringly by the political right when they feel their moral standing is under threat, particularly from those seeking greater social and economic justice. Beware the naysayers.

    in reply to: Butler’s got the nod #285739
    GurnelistaGurnelista
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    So, based on comments from CMC, TJO and others (above) if we don’t get promoted in 24/25, Butler will have failed, and should expect the boot, right? No two ways about it, no question of stats, goals, unlucky penalties, or excuses about cash. It’s the “cruel reality of pro football”, and he will have to go, right??

    GurnelistaGurnelista
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    Seething anger and alienation, leavened with a splash of humour.

    in reply to: Butler’s got the nod #285640
    GurnelistaGurnelista
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    It seems Dean is being scapegoated for fans’ high hopes which were cruelly dashed at the last.
    Note the stained glass of some Bru-ers with Dean and Plummer in Lincoln Cathedral….
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scapegoat

    in reply to: Butler’s got the nod #285588
    GurnelistaGurnelista
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    True, under Dean it was often winning ugly.
    But under Nelson it was just 9 games, W.2 D2.L5.
    Losing pretty?

    in reply to: . #285406
    GurnelistaGurnelista
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    Ha ha, he might actually do well and you might get over the departure of Mr supposed nice guy.

    No sour grapes (or olives) DM, or idea about Dean’s personality, but his stats were more than respectable. The Board could see this, but a few on here demanded a scapegoat for their disappointment, and abandoned logic, forethought and common sense, just as they did with Brexit. I hope AB does well, but I won’t be surprised if he doesn’t. Be careful what you wish for.

    in reply to: . #285379
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    The ‘dot’ is a sign, a sign from the gods!
    Behold, he now walks among us.
    A true Chthonic deity
    Emerged from the depths of Donny.
    Rejoice,
    For it is the fourth coming…
    Of Andy Butler!

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    in reply to: Butler’s got the nod #285285
    GurnelistaGurnelista
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    Well, plenty to lose if we go backwards! And the reason he might not succeed is lack of money and lack of experience, except with the ladies, apparently. But, at least he speaks nicely.

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    in reply to: Club Statement: Dean gone! #285205
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    New season ticket money will probably be servicing the debts.

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    in reply to: Club Statement: Dean gone! #285204
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    Hmmm doesn’t sound like it when she says “the budget and payroll far exceed the level we are currently operating at” and need to be brought under control, starting with management and players.

    Maybe we can also find someone who talks a good game even if we lose. A few posters think it important.

    in reply to: Club Statement: Dean gone! #285199
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    Owner and chairperson Michelle Harness said: “To be saying goodbye to Jimmy, Chris and Ant is undoubtedly one of our toughest decisions since we took ownership of the club, and it is a decision we’ve made with a very heavy heart.

    “We inherited significant debt, along with a budget and payroll which by far exceeds the level that we are currently operating at, and we need to work hard this summer to bring that back to a level where we can both compete at, but also remain sustainable, and this must start at football management level… .

    Reading between these lines, it sounds like his departure has nothing to do with the football, just that they couldn’t agree financials.

    Sadly, we’re back in the precarious situation of a year ago, with a smaller squad and less to spend.

    But hey ho, maybe we’ll find a manager who’ll build a team which scores more goals than anyone else, has a better goal difference, and can finish higher than second. Trebles all round??

    in reply to: Chuckin It In #284991
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    DM – goals and points don’t tell the full story? If you want a winning team they’re the most important elements of it. Never mind the moaning about ‘chopping and changing’, the ‘awful substitutions’, the ‘terrified of losing’ etc. etc. mentioned above. The stats and table don’t lie.

    What do you want, lose a thrilling match 3-4 each week and and flirt with relegation?

    Everyone wants an entertaining side, but once again, this is NLN, and it’s often not pretty. Then again, football often isn’t. Maybe we get spoiled by the amount of elite footy on tv, especially the highlights which cut out the boring bits.

    Sanfran is right about fickle, moaning supporters. But look, all fans suffer. It’s part of the game. And as in football, so in life. The religiously persuaded might think of it as a test of endurance, which He allows us to suffer as part of the trials of life, to humble us and make us more like Him. Those above, so quick to chuck in the towel, turn their backs and run, should pause a moment for reflection and have a quiet word with their spiritual guardians, not least themselves.

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    in reply to: Chuckin It In #284919
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    Agree with Mister Misterton and others.

    Lots of stats from the maths teacher elsewhere, and the speculative, subjective list of ‘if this, if that’ (above) brings to mind lists of Brexit bollox. OK, Dean’s not your pint of shandy, but here are more important numbers:

    Finished second and scored 84 – best in the league. Goal difference – 46 best in the league. Went out on a playoff penalty.

    Fans have such short memories, but just think back. At the start of the season when the club’s very survival was in doubt, would anyone on here have thought those numbers unacceptable? Would anyone on here possessed of their faculties have thought they would be grounds for managerial renewal?

    We might be in the same business as Barcelona, but that’s about all. It’s NLN, and after a season of uncertainty and near-death, finishing a creditable second should not grounds for managerial renewal and yet more upheaval with yet another untried wannabee. Chuck it in? Get real! (not Madrid)

    in reply to: Bye-bye Jimbob! #284881
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    DM – No ideology or art, just realism. This is NLN. Players often miss chances, fall over, or can’t be bothered. Managers often struggle with tactics, and the games are often rubbish. But we scored plenty, and had it not been for a missed pen on Saturday we wouldn’t be having this debate now. FFS, anyone would think we’d just been relegated!

    Ironx3 – supporters are often quick to call for a sacking on messageboards and elsewhere when the results start to falter. Fan impatience is legendary, as was the impatience of the last two chairmen. And look where it got us. Even when we had Laws and some of the most memorable matches in the last two decades, plenty on here were calling for him to be sacked!

    Course, if Dean left there would be plenty of chancers willing to take over. But forget the ‘promised land’ any time soon. At this level, most would be useless, clueless, and take us back even further.

    As for Nostradamus’ prognostications about ‘entering the dark ages’ … after regularly sacking managers for the past decade, that’s precisely where we are now! Surely it’s obvious.

    Attendances? In this league ours might be an indicator of superior wealth, but we have big debts, meaning there’s far less available for the club to sign/keep players than some others.

    Results? If this, if that…. if my aunt was my uncle she’d have had bollox!

    True, the season hasn’t turned out the way we wanted, but under Dean we’ve done reasonably well, despite our impoverishment and near death. But past experience suggests that appointing yet another manager would be capitulating to the same populist impatience and recklessness which helped bring us here in the first place. Stick with him throughout 2024, let him consolidate and build, then review in January.

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    in reply to: Bye-bye Jimbob! #284793
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    Fair comment, but either way we’ve earned a poor reputation for keeping managers, boardroom stability and club finance.

    High standards are important, but so is realism. A boy wonder manager with a stellar CV isn’t about to walk through the revolving door, wave his wand, and in a magical flash take the club back to FL2.

    But, we did well this season, and we just might do better next time if we build on it rather than getting rid, going backwards and starting over. Failure to get promoted this year is just a bruise, not a tattoo.

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    in reply to: Bye-bye Jimbob! #284769
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    Have you seen the person spec sheets for road sweepers and bin people?
    You need a degree to empty bins these days.

    But not to run a political party like say, UKIP.

    Alternatively, let’s aim low and wallow in the cesspit for a decade or two?

    If leading the league for a good part of the season, finishing in the playoffs and then going out on a penalty are grounds for dismissal, who of any calibre would want to come here and with hardly any cash to spend? What sort of reputation does it give the club?

    In case nobody noticed, it has been the persistent sacking of managers season after season that has contributed to the club being where it is already – in the proverbial cesspit of NLN.

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    in reply to: Bye-bye Jimbob! #284735
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    It’s the NLN, not the prem or politics!
    Which managerial superman with all those attributes would take a job here, and with hardly any cash to spend?

    in reply to: Boston #284622
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    Good summary IA. Fact is, we’re still not good enough, and had we gone up, we’d have struggled, especially as the budget is said to be a lot smaller next season. The positives are that the club is still there, and despite all the challenges of the toughest season in the Iron’s history, we nearly got promoted.

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    in reply to: Plan B #284405
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    It depends on the manner of the defeat. If it’s an embarrassment then it could be Dean’s last game. If not, then it’s hard to say, as we don’t know what’s been going on behind the scenes and how the board feels about Dean and his management. You also have to consider whether anyone more suitable would be available or want to take charge, the current state of club finances, etc. etc. As fans we aren’t privy to all this knowledge, so who knows?

    in reply to: Alfreton v Boston #284283
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    Beware of Alfreton, they’re having a good spell.
    Only lost one in the last ten and scored more goals than Tamworth this season.

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    in reply to: Your Grand National Fancy Is? #284115
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    Well it’s true JI, you do play the victim and nearly all your posts are about yourself, just like those of your infamous predecessor.

    ‘Dim’? Hypocritical? Just look above – you moan about a lack of joy then go on a rant about fear, death and judgement! Elsewhere you go on about truth, yet endorse those wacky websites. You claim to espouse Christian family values but endorse Trump and the far right!

    And as for wanting posters to take seriously the cussed, prejudiced loonies on here – the end of days brigade, the WND fans and all the jonnies with their hypocrisy, manipulation and lies – if that’s what you expect, you need to look elsewhere.

    in reply to: Your Grand National Fancy Is? #284046
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    Aye, witness the loonies on here that are either prepping for the end of days or pontificating about truth while following wacky websites like World Net Daily and expressing admiration for the serial liar, serial adulterer and self-confessed sex offender standing to become the next American president.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WorldNetDaily

    in reply to: Your Grand National Fancy Is? #283992
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    The main issue here is the woman’s right to choose v religious patriarchs’ wish to impose their views on women; views based on pre-modern ideas about the creation of life.

    The point is this. If abortion were banned, women would still seek it out, and the practice would be driven underground, just as it was in the past, with (usually poor) women enduring some of the most dangerous and barbaric medical practices imaginable, at the hands of charlatans and snake oil salespeople. Once again, it would become a cottage industry practised in back streets by the bad, mad and impecunious. Desirable? I don’t think so.

    But let’s be clear, there are still far too many unwanted pregnancies, and the key to preventing many of them is education and contraception. With better education in schools and families, not least in some of the most staunch, severe and fundamental religious communities where contraception and sex are still taboo, women can grow to be confident and educated to take decisions which prevent unwanted pregnancy.

    So, forget all the pompous piffle and frankly hypocritical comments about “ideological preference” from the ideologically motivated religious lobby. Instead, JI and others should consider how much their views are shared with fundamentalists of all kinds, especially Muslims, when it comes to basic issues around women’s rights, human rights, democracy and the death penalty. They’d be quite at home in Saudi Arabia; in fact I believe there are some cheap deals to Mecca, currently.

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