[Just Iron]

‘Anyone who puts Biden in the same planet as Putin needs examining. One’s a democratically elected leader who respects the system, the other is an ethnonationalist, essentially fascist autocrat responsible for mass murder of civilians.’

Did anyone,Sidey? Maybe we didnt define our terms. Do I think Biden is a fascist autocrat responsible for mass murder ..like Putin, or Kim Jong Thingee, Or China’s boss. I dont think these guys are idiots. Far from it. I do think Joe Biden qualifies.

[Just Iron]

Just come in so haven’t taken in the replies to my last post. Maybe in the morning. Meanwhile ….

Hi Gurney You made 4 points so I’ll answer each one then add a bit more.
1. The idiocy was never about ‘not making good decisions’. It was about the most powerful and influential man on the planet making a series of awful, abysmal ones.
2. Energy. The Green New Deal. Yep. You nailed it. I disapprove ..almost to the point of despair .. of Biden’s Green energy policy. (My first real ‘outing’ in the bag, Gurney). A policy that helps to plunge hundreds of millions ..not just in the USA but across the Globe.. into energy poverty and distress; that enhances Putin’s capabilities; that gives unbounded joy to the CCP; that not only doesn’t help the environment but actually makes it worse. Genius!
3. Sidey may differ from me in some perspectives but he definitely shares my advocacy of fairness. You might ask yourself, Gurney, why all your contextual skills and undoubted intellect go sailing down the Swanee whenever my faith comes into view. For example … why did I refer to Feminist voices on Afghanistan. Is it because, as you said, my focus is solely on Christians? Are you under the illusion that Feminists mainly advocate for the disciples of Jesus? The idiocy in Afghanistan was that it had all the hallmarks of a woefully uninformed and hastily conceived grab for a ‘political trophy’ with scant regard for women, minorities, those who helped the allies … and ‘apostates’ now fleeing death because of their Christian faith. To pull troops out first! Idiocy. To leave allies scrambling! Idiocy. To leave tens of billions worth of state of the art weaponry. Idiocy. To consider the Taliban honourable and reliable partners. Idiocy. To signal to nasty, malevolent regimes across the Globe that the US is either naïve or spineless. Idiocy. I think you catch my drift.
4. No. I don’t endorse criminal behaviour. Whether it is storming Capitol buildings, looting and torching black owned stores and businesses, influence peddling for millions of Chinese lucre or fabricating narratives to discredit political opponents I am firmly on the side of accountability. It’s not for nothing that Justice wears her blindfold … and so should we all be impartial and consistent in our zeal for truth and justice.
Finally …. The Big Reveal. Have I ever mentioned that I am a Christian.? Probably.(Groan) I believe in the sanctity of human life and so am not a fan of abortion. I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. I believe that there is such a thing as a man and a woman. I believe in social justice. I celebrate the wonderful racial and cultural diversity on the planet. I love freedom of thought and freedom of speech. I believe in respectful and honest discourse. I don’t believe in labelling or mocking or cancelling people who have different opinions. And I’m probably more to the right than the left … with a bit of movement in between on some issues. Thats me out of the closet .. if I was ever in it.

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TwoWrights

[Just Iron]

Thanks for Edit tip Deerey.
Re Joe Biden leading the most influential nation. What I was trying to say was that whilst I understand the nominations from the UK scene … or even as far as Moscow .. it was the consequences of accumulated ‘idiocy’ by the US President that did and does the most damage. Of all people the world needs a balanced and wise US President.
Re the ‘deplorable few’ it is my words immediately afterwards ( ref to tens of millions) that is the crux of my argument. And it’s my main disconnect with Sidey. There is indeed a substantial number of Republicans ..maybe tens or even hundreds of thousands … with deplorable attitudes and behaviour because it’s a massive demographic and huge electorate so that even the band on the margins is pretty hefty. But there are tens of millions of Conservative Americans who don’t storm buildings or engage in wild conspiracy theories or accuse the opposition of being Paedos. Who knows whether this extreme element are greater in number than or a significant percentage more than their counterparts on the left … thinking Antifa/BLM et al … who looted and burned their way through largely poor neighbourhoods in the Summer of 2019. You have drawn your conclusion Sidey in alleging that these elements now dominate Republicanism in a way that their counterparts don’t on the Democrat side. I don’t see it. My fear is that the definition of a ’Deplorable’ having no place is civilised society is not just being applied to those described above on the right but is actually starting to umbrella generally over those holding socially ‘conservative’ values … many of which I share. (Let’s see how it pans out for me later when I answer some of Gurney’s probing about my own views)
Sidey .. a lot of what I’ve addressed to Deerey obviously responds also to some of your points. I would just add a couple of more things. It’s a relief to me that you’re not keen on ‘the Squad’…hopefully not the 2019 looters and rioters also. Seems to me that they were also ‘Deplorable’ ..though I’ve not heard it said. (‘Who said protests have to be peaceful?’ ‘They are not going to stop ..and nor should they!’ etc etc)
Again your assertion that one side has mainstreamed its ‘Deplorability’ whilst the other hasn’t is where the cookie crumbles for me and makes me concerned that it is not just extreme, crazed and criminal behaviour that attracts the label … but certain values and views that clash with a progressive worldview. This is where, I suspect, that my old friend Gurney wants to ‘out me.’

More on that later.

[Just Iron]

When I get my laptop back from repair man ..hopefully soon .. I’m looking forward to answering some of the reactions to my nomination.
I see you modified a post, Gurney. I can’t see an ‘edit tag’ like there used to be. Am I missing something .. in case I want to do an edit?

[Just Iron]

Wow, Daz. Wow!

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BobbyGmeister

[Just Iron]

We are definitely on different pages, Sidey. That take on how all the conciliatory impulse sits on one side of the divide is breathtaking. And I believe just perpetuates the polarised problem. But … again and again .. absolutely no offence taken when views are expressed without insult, mockery and malice. I love a bit of passion .. even if I see things very differently. A pleasure to do business with you, Sir.

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TwoWrights

[Just Iron]

We are quite a bit apart on this. Even before possible Republican Presidential candidates have declared they are being ‘cited.’ If care isn’t taken it becomes ‘self evident’ that they are fair game .. why? … because they come from t’other side. That’s my point re Unity. Where does true tolerance start … when someone disagrees. What is real Unity … certainly not when it’s uniformity.

[Just Iron]

1. The consequences of Afghanistan were not limited to 2021. They accelerated through 2022 and continue on.
2. I am a bit surprised by your analogy Sidey re Unity. Are you really thinking that tens of millions of Americans who don’t see the ‘progressive’ agenda as being healthy .. and not just an extreme cadre on the margins ..see the world as you have described? Jeremy Corbyn and his supporters were not mainstream, as the electorate quickly demonstrated, and did not reflect the vision of the majority of Labour supporters. And neither should the majority of centre and right leaning Americans be equated with those on the margins. How on earth can cooperation and partnership develop across a nation if whole swathes of the population are labelled and demonised in this way? I think Joe Biden has failed to grasp this but surely not you. ( But you’re not the President of the USA who pledged to Unite the country so he really matters)

[Just Iron]

Maybe me and Bill can be put on the back burner. I may have enough on my plate with possible responses to my Uncle Joe post and apart from laptop issues limiting my replies I’ve also got some catching up stuff to do after my holiday.

[Just Iron]

3. Afghanistan! Afghanistan! Afghanistan! What possessed him. And where are the feminist voices laying the blame for what has transpired? A charity that I support has a list of hundreds of Afghans who committed the heinous crime of becoming followers of Jesus and are being hunted door to door. Was it really to have a Foreign Policy trophy for last years Sep 11th? Dear God.
4. Unity. Bringing Americans together. Remember that speech. Unity except, of course, for the deplorable few … how many tens of millions .. who have other views and would reflect that in their vote. I see no evidence that Uncle Jo has an ounce of reconciliation juice flowing anywhere in his ageing body.
How’s that for starters? So ..for me .. Jo Biden it has to be.

[Just Iron]

… thanks again Deerey and IA for asking why Jo Biden?
1. Partly because he leads the (still) most influential and economically/militarily powerful nation in the world. I understand why some might be looking closer to home .. or even to Russia … but I think that it’s imperative that the leader of the USA makes wise decisions because really bad ones effect people way beyond his own patch. He has truly made some stonkers.
2. His energy policy is the most myopic and ideologically castrated imaginable and is managing to cripple the economic and even political well being of tens of millions in the USA and across the globe… whilst actually damaging the environment. Genius!
A couple more to come.. but can only post in small bits.

[Just Iron]

Hi Guys Belated seasons greetings. Flew into Manchester in early hours and found car battery flat outside house and laptop kaput inside. Not how I planned my day!!
A couple of contributions to make. One re my choice of Jo Biden.
The other to help the puzzled few who might actually care about how BPG and I are getting along. (Not so many I suspect .. but this doesn’t seem to be going away so maybe a comment from me could help)…..

[Just Iron]

Hi IA Not convinced that Bucks wasn’t in your sights when you made the quip. In fact I probably think your defence wasn’t altogether honest. Without trawling back I recall questions like ‘Are you Ill ?’ and other examples when you take a different position. My point to you was that it can be amusing but if you over use it then it becomes toxic to a discussion. That was my point.

[Just Iron]

Uncle Jo Biden all day/year long.

[Just Iron]

ps 64 … ‘nobody wanted to keep it civil’.
I see several examples of appeals to a better tone in the above thread. I find your ‘snap and snarl’ approach a real downer. It may relieve ..or even energise ..you but its not all about you. Its never to late to learn new skills ..how about having a go.

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Deereyme66

[Just Iron]

Interesting perspectives. I’m enjoying reading this thread. Alot of sense there NI. Bucks seems to feature quite alot so I would add a further couple of comments. Firstly IA I don’t think he needs medical help. The old ‘keep taking the tablets’ approach can lighten the mood at times but if it becomes a ‘go to’ strategy it contributes to that dynamic which leads to fewer and fewer posters. Secondly, and probably more provocatively, I don’t think that Bucks does get a fair crack of the whip on many occasions. His style isn’t mine by any means. I think it takes a fair amount of goodwill and self discipline to explore a topic with someone who presents as he does, especially if we sit on the other side of the debate. I frequently see an over eagerness to dismiss what Bucks is saying just because it’s him and not on the merits of what he is offering. A bit more reflection on this and the umber of contributors might increase.

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Northumbiron

[Just Iron]

Interesting question, Deerey. A range of possibilities I think. Here’s a few that spring to my mind.
Some people have more time than others .. or have different priorities on how to use it.
Some people have strong thoughts and ideas but fewer outlets than others.
Some people like a ‘strong exchange of ideas/set to’.. but for many it feels like an unpleasant row brewing so stay away.
In some cases it looks like people become targeted not just for reprehensible ideas but for presenting a ‘non consensus’ perspective and/ or for their style of presentation.
I am sure there are more.

[Just Iron]

Next time you come IA … if you see a tall, balding but extremely good looking guy casting his line then stop and say hello. :)

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Iron-awe

[Just Iron]

I may try a bit of Winter perch fishing on the canal. Perhaps fancying a go on the Aire sometime in early Spring before the river season closes.
IA … mainly on the canal stretch from Rodley towards Apperley Bridge/ Bradford If you know it. Occasionally on the Kirkstall stretch. Only go a handful of times each year .. mainly to escape Bill’s compulsion to set my doctrine right.

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Iron-awe, Deereyme66

[Just Iron]

Two or three times a year ..just squeeze value on my pensioners rod licence. Mainly catch perch on maggot or worm on free stretches of the Leeds-Liverpool canal.Occasionally on the Wharfe near Otley or the Nidd at Knaresborough … one or two tasty trout there last year.My wife loves all the peripheral stuff on Gone Fishing … scenery, banter, philosophising, cooking whilst I also get the bonus of the fishing.
Have you come across The Ginger Fisherman on You Tube? I love a quick 20 or 30 mins with him from time to time.

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Deereyme66

[Just Iron]

Didn’t pick up that you like a bit of fishing, Deerey. Me too. Just occasionally, though not too often, we seem to find a bit of common ground. :)

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Deereyme66

[Just Iron]

Eh?

[Just Iron]

Sad news. Always thought of him as much older. Only three years on me. Strange how ‘that team’ of the late sixties seemed so much older than my teenage self … Cassidy, Heath, Kerr, Clemence, Keegan, Welbourne etc Whether sharing my faith ..or not … such news ought to give us a sober moment I think.

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Northumbiron

[Just Iron]

That’s rough. My deepest sympathy.

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Deereyme66

[Just Iron]

I may be wrong here 64 … its happened before… but would I be correct in thinking that you’re not keen on the Conservatives?

[Just Iron]

Bit of a feeding ‘frenzy building up’… though pumping offal into the water tends to have that effect.

[Just Iron]

‘JI would probably have been forced to lick the road clean with his tongue after working a 25 hour shift darn pit.’

‘Luxury!!!’

Luxury indeed!! I’ve never publicly talked about this … but some folk don’t know they’re born! We used to get up a good hour before we went to bed and work a 26 hour day down Dawes Lane licking rust off pylons .. AND we had to pay for the privilege! When we got home .. after walking back to Ashby via Kirton in us bare feet delivering rancid donkey carcasses to the school meal factory .. we were allowed a bit of ‘footie time’. Them was t’days. But it made me what I am today!!

[/quote]

[Just Iron]

Me and ‘our kid’ were always telling ‘me mum’ that we were off to play ‘footie.’If I’d said off to play’soccer’there would have been raised eyebrows … then scornful laughter … and then, maybe, violence.

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TwoWrights, Pat O'Cake, cassidystash, Deereyme66, Iron-awe

[Just Iron]

But it could have been …THE one!
I would have liked someone else to step up and say ‘ You’ve scored one, Harry. He knows you inside out. I’ll take this one’

[Just Iron]

Talking sense IA. I don’t blame him one bit for looking after his interests … nor the club for making the best of it.

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BobbyGmeister

[Author]

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