Iron Bru › Forums › Blast Furnace › Simon Elliott
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May 28, 2023 at 4:46 pm #263183
Was ‘shrugging off’ the fact that my ‘IB moniker’ post was apparently censored ..but 24 hours on it rankles. You obviously saw it Deerey ..as did IA .. what do you both think? I know that you sit in different positions re David Hilton, the speculation around him and why IB has become so prominent and persistent. But I’m really puzzled as to why …beyond a techno glitch ..that post was taken out. You both know how borderline obsessive I am re keeping it civil and having respectful discourse ..so have you any thoughts on this?
From my perspective I stepped in to point out that a bystander is usually an observer and not engaged in influencing ..especially in a highly committed and persistent manner. So I was probing to get a bit more explanation/ccountability from IB. Seems fair enough to me … especially since his own stated position is to get us to hold David Hilton to scrutiny and accountability.I’m not sure why your post was pulled, I certainly wasn’t offended by it. Although it did leave me wondering why you have more interest in me than the general message.
I joined this forum in early April and not once have I insulted any member on here or shown disrespect for the moderators by posting or commenting on information which is not in the public domain. The same applies to your club and staff. My thrill comes from due diligence, investigation and being proved correct, not by insulting those who are involved for the right reasons.
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May 28, 2023 at 5:02 pm #263186I can’t speak for others, but I am thankful of the information you brought up. It is concerning, and I think we need to be aware of where we place our trust in Hilton. A history of poor business history, legal battles and burning people he has borrowed from do raise eyebrows and is something we should bare in mind when he comes in saying how all the issues with the ground are Swann’s fault and makes promises about new stadiums and what not.
Of course what we do with this is one thing, and JI is right in that we aren’t in control of ownership and decisions made there. However, lambasting critics (by some) won’t alleviate concerns or remove division, and there are ways of raising a spotlight and create some kind of plan in case things go belly up. Even if that is a phoenix club.
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May 28, 2023 at 5:23 pm #263188Thanks IB. Glad that it was not seen as offensive. That wasn’t my intention.
The reason I posted … and wanted to probe your motivation … was, as stated before, that you are far more than a bystander in the limited world of this forum. You are deeply engaged and highly motivated. You are giving frequent and detailed posts regarding David Hilton and what Iron supporters’ response to him ought to be. I am not suggesting that you have been insulting or offensive in your posts.
The point I am making is that to avoid the sense that you are simply stirring up anxiety and fractiousness amongst a demoralised and largely impotent fan base I would like to see the same standard of transparency from you as you are asking from David Hilton. Your answer that you care about due diligence etc may well be true. But it’s not enough for me to disarm suspicion. Tell us why this specific ‘cause’ is so important to you beyond just general principle. Otherwise it might seem wise to say that you’ve made your principled point to us fulsomely and repeatedly … so why not move on and fight a different cause?May 28, 2023 at 5:32 pm #263189I think it’s more important to have transparency with Hilton than IB, personally, given the latter’s involvement with our club. Regardless of IB’s motivation, he has unearthed material which raise eyebrows over how Hilton has handled his interests in the past. Of course Hilton might be a changed man, but he has seemingly got himself involved with another fuss in his ventures. I don’t see how the worries from the material unearthed change if IB has a more personal agenda against Hilton. The worries come from evidence based information IB has unearthed, not from his actual arguments.
It’s not just from him either. Jordan Zakarin has spoken to people who Hilton has borrowed money from in the past and they are not on good terms with him, due to lack of returns of money. OK, this is based on Jordan’s word, so it may be taken with a pinch of salt. However, it all adds in to concerns which make sense given past failed ventures and Company’s House records. Jordan seems a well intentioned guy as well, and provided a lot of info and work which showed up Swann, so I think he is motivated by concern for the club.
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May 28, 2023 at 5:49 pm #263190‘But I’m really puzzled as to why …beyond a techno glitch ..that post was taken out…so have you any thoughts on this?’
My thoughts are quite possibly a techno glitch, as obviously I saw it and commented on it and nothing in it was offensive. These things happen, I wouldn’t get too hung about it JI.
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May 28, 2023 at 5:49 pm #263191I meant the former, not the latter. D’oh
May 28, 2023 at 5:49 pm #263192Ok. And where does this leave us? I’m exactly where I’ve been for months. Concerned but hoping for a good outcome. Not prepared to join any crusade either way. Respect for differing perspectives. Ultimately …I suppose .. I fall back on my view that ‘football is the most important of the least important things.’
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May 28, 2023 at 5:52 pm #263193‘Ok. And where does this leave us?’
It leaves us all where we were before doesn’t it? With our own minds and opinion about it all?
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May 28, 2023 at 5:59 pm #263194For some it may mean little, because we have little power. However, awareness might create some to at least demand clearer answers, because Swann’s silence and poor communication from the club under Hilton has left us dazed and confused. Awareness and transparency are a good thing because it allows those with power to be held accountable. Those who are honest don’t need to fear it, and even discrepancies can be cleared up, so questions about what’s brought up can be answered. After all, this is our football club and I don’t want to be placing all my trust in someone who might not deserve it.
Of course, such questions I have may be answerable and Hilton may succeed. I don’t want to write him off at this time, but after Swann I am going to tread cautiously.
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May 28, 2023 at 6:23 pm #263196Thanks IB. Glad that it was not seen as offensive. That wasn’t my intention.
The reason I posted … and wanted to probe your motivation … was, as stated before, that you are far more than a bystander in the limited world of this forum. You are deeply engaged and highly motivated. You are giving frequent and detailed posts regarding David Hilton and what Iron supporters’ response to him ought to be. I am not suggesting that you have been insulting or offensive in your posts.
The point I am making is that to avoid the sense that you are simply stirring up anxiety and fractiousness amongst a demoralised and largely impotent fan base I would like to see the same standard of transparency from you as you are asking from David Hilton. Your answer that you care about due diligence etc may well be true. But it’s not enough for me to disarm suspicion. Tell us why this specific ‘cause’ is so important to you beyond just general principle. Otherwise it might seem wise to say that you’ve made your principled point to us fulsomely and repeatedly … so why not move on and fight a different cause?The subject is irrelevant, it could be another individual and subsequently, a different set of circumstances. No amount of words from me will allay your suspicion so it’s a futile exercise. You have every right not to trust me, you don’t know me and I’m OK with that. I certainly have no intention of trying to convince you otherwise as that would just be noise and a distraction from what really matters.
Move on? I sense the journey has only just begun.
May 28, 2023 at 6:59 pm #263197..unless you decided to say who you support, how you came across David Hilton and any other background detail. That would be helpful.
May 28, 2023 at 7:09 pm #263200I may be wrong but didn’t IB say he supports Derby a while ago?
May 28, 2023 at 7:16 pm #263201I missed that, but it would make sense.
May 28, 2023 at 7:18 pm #263202Must be on cloud 9. Really pleased for him.
May 28, 2023 at 7:56 pm #263208Shame the team Swann supports getting relegated.
Welcome to our world Peter.
2 more relegations and you might be as pissed off as we are.
May 28, 2023 at 10:49 pm #263216It’s not just from him either. Jordan Zakarin has spoken to people who Hilton has borrowed money from in the past and they are not on good terms with him, due to lack of returns of money. OK, this is based on Jordan’s word, so it may be taken with a pinch of salt. However, it all adds in to concerns which make sense given past failed ventures and Company’s House records. Jordan seems a well intentioned guy as well, and provided a lot of info and work which showed up Swann, so I think he is motivated by concern for the club.
Thank you for the kind words and trust. I’m happy to explain more about the Hilton victims with whom I’ve spoken, I’d just prefer to do so in a one on one conversation to make sure I’m respecting their privacy.
As for my intentions, I certainly never anticipated investigating a second owner when I began learning about the club, fans, town, and rotten situation last summer. And I wouldn’t have had a number of people not come to me with some information about Hilton. After watching the tumult with Swann and having felt so welcomed by the fan base from the start, I decided that I couldn’t shrug at the information presented.
My protracted silence was a product of waiting to see how the season turned out, as I didn’t want to create any further turmoil during the crucial run-in. Now seems like the right time to warn folks as much as I can and get the word out in every platform as possible.
In the event that it becomes clear that a phoenix club reoresents the most viable option going forward, count me in to contribute for the initial investment. I only want to see this saga end with a happy ending for Scunny fans.
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May 28, 2023 at 11:52 pm #263218Must be on cloud 9. Really pleased for him.
Don’t know what happened there. Supposed to be a post to the KVV thread!
May 28, 2023 at 11:57 pm #263219‘I only want to see this saga end with a happy ending for Scunny fans’
Steady on Jordan lad! 🤣
May 29, 2023 at 9:25 am #263224Must be on cloud 9. Really pleased for him.
Don’t know what happened there. Supposed to be a post to the KVV thread!
Talisker Skye 🤔
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May 29, 2023 at 9:28 am #263225Must be on cloud 9. Really pleased for him.
Don’t know what happened there. Supposed to be a post to the KVV thread!
Same thing happened with me yesterday. I was sure I originally posted a comment on this thread, but it appeared on the Brexit benefits thread. I thought I must have accidentally clicked on the wrong thread when I replied, but now I wonder if it’s a glitch.
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May 29, 2023 at 10:01 am #263229Might also explain my being ‘censored.’
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May 29, 2023 at 10:01 am #263231Relatively sober last night!
May 29, 2023 at 10:03 am #263232Glad it’s not just me! 😂
May 29, 2023 at 10:04 am #263233Must be on cloud 9. Really pleased for him.
Don’t know what happened there. Supposed to be a post to the KVV thread!
Same thing happened with me yesterday. I was sure I originally posted a comment on this thread, but it appeared on the Brexit benefits thread. I thought I must have accidentally clicked on the wrong thread when I replied, but now I wonder if it’s a glitch.
Bizarre. It jumped boards 🤣
May 29, 2023 at 10:53 am #263237Might also explain my being ‘censored.’
Naw JI your just bad ass.
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