NettyYahoo bigger murder than Bin Ladenn

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  • #281042
    fans6464
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    7 times 9/11 in this operation some, let alone the daily murders that the west turns a blind eyed to by the sweetly maxed “settlers”.
    History will not need v kind too n this Butcher, sadly Starmer is

    #281048
    SideriteSiderite
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    Britain and its allies killed more in WWII, Afghanistan and anti-ISIS operations too. We’re still not worse than Bin Laden. Not that this makes Netanyahu a good person, but it’s not a good metric to draw moral comparisons, necessarily. Context is key. For one, there wouldn’t be conflict if Hamas hadn’t initiated it for an ideology, much like Bin Laden’s attempts.

    #281065
    HeathHeath
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    How many more times. This is not the same as World War 2!!

    #281067
    SideriteSiderite
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    So civilians dying in war ok depending on circumstance? So, when civilians died in ISIS operations it’s not so bad as Bin Laden, but during an Israeli led war it’s definitely worse and makes them worse than Bin Laden?

    #281069
    SideriteSiderite
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    Also, I am not saying it is the same as WWII, but the OP is making an argument about numbers of casualties. I am pointing out it isn’t, so judging the Israel-Palestine conflict against Bin Laden is as false as WWII is with Israel-Palestine conflicts. If numbers alone mean all, then WWII along with the other post-WWII wars you ignore, means we could be judged worse than Bin Laden. Which I find silly.

    #281078
    HeathHeath
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    All conflicts are different and it is you who keeps referencing World War 2. Are you still supporting the actions of the Israelis?

    #281079
    SideriteSiderite
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    Maybe if you got off your high horse you would be able to understand the point. OP was using casualties to suggest Netanyahu is worse than Bin Laden. I was saying that civilian casualties are higher in many other conflicts too, but this doesn’t make us worse. That’s it. Using WWII to point out the flaws in the argument is valid.

    Your argument is that the different context of WWII makes it invalid, so I ask, are civilian deaths ok in different circumstances? It’s the only way my comparison would be invalid.

    #281085
    SideriteSiderite
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    If you think all conflicts are different, you should understand why I am arguing against a comparison between Bin Laden and Netanyahu because they are not the same. This conflict was started by Oct 7th, without it there would be no war, no matter the injustices of the West Bank or Israeli wrongs. The decision to cause a pogrom and hostage situation is the fault of Hamas and its allies, not Israel, no feelings of discrimination or whatever justifies it or explains it away. There are other outlets. Besides, Hamas would use any excuse, because they’re not just reactionary to Israel, they have their own ideology incompatible with peace.

    None of this means I think Netanyahu is good (second time, will be ignored again probably), I don’t know what Israel expect to do with civilians in Rafah. However, crass comparisons to Saddam or Bin Laden are just agenda driven and the arguments made here could be made against the results of war in British army too, hence me arguing against it. Because, no matter the indiscipline seen in the IDF, and Netanyahu’s worrying comments and actions, I don’t find this a convincing argument regarding comparing casualties of war with those who deliberately planned to kill civilians, not engaging in callous disregard for civilians during war.

    #281089
    fans6464
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    Round em up then kill them,very efficient,where have we seen that before?.Notice how the right wing press again begin to call critics,”antisemites”?

    #281090
    HeathHeath
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    “but this doesn’t make us worse”.

    Had a chuckle at the high horse reaction. Read some of your own posts.

    Who are “us”?

    #281091
    SideriteSiderite
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    Round em up then kill them,very efficient,where have we seen that before?.Notice how the right wing press again begin to call critics,”antisemites”?

    If rounding up and killing them was the ulterior motive they wouldn’t have bothered with any evacuations from Gaza City.

    Accusations of antisemitism typically come when people engage in conspiracy theories or say stuff about Jewish masters controlling others etc. It’s perfectly fine to call Netanyahu a fascist or something; that’s not antisemitic.

    #281092
    SideriteSiderite
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    “but this doesn’t make us worse”.

    Had a chuckle at the high horse reaction. Read some of your own posts.

    Who are “us”?

    I am not the one making snide comments without trying to understand the point and score points. I was disagreeing. Is saying liberal culture found in the UK is superior to Islamism represented by Bin Laden is on my high horse? Or is a worldview that subjugates gays, women, non-Muslims etc and launches terror against those it sees as in opposition to its faith really equivalent?

    #281101
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    Who are us?

    #281102
    HeathHeath
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    I must admit, I haven’t a clue what you are talking about, or to be more accurate, I can’t be bothered to work it out.

    I do know you haven’t answered what “us” means or if you continue to support the Israeli action.

    For my benefit, simple answers would be welcome.

    #281104
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    Also, I am not saying it is the same as WWII, but the OP is making an argument about numbers of casualties. I am pointing out it isn’t, so judging the Israel-Palestine conflict against Bin Laden is as false as WWII is with Israel-Palestine conflicts. If numbers alone mean all, then WWII along with the other post-WWII wars you ignore, means we could be judged worse than Bin Laden. Which I find silly.

    OP says Netanyahu is bigger ‘murderer’ than Bin Laden. I point out that other conflicts have killed more civilians,including ones which are surely honourable, but don’t make us worse than the likes of Bin Laden. I even said that it doesn’t make Netanyahu honourable, but this is a poor metric to use when comparing warfare with terrorism of Bin Laden whose specific aim was to kill civilians (and not just because of callous disregard).

    I don’t see why ‘supporting Israeli action’ or not is relevant to my point. I can’t be bothered when I do not think there has even been an attempt to understand, nor do I think such a question is in good faith. I have spoken of issues regarding Rafah and civilians, so I would think that should be some hint that I have issues with how the war has been conducted.

    #281105
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    I do know you haven’t answered what “us” means or if you continue to support the Israeli action.

    Us – UK.

    #281107
    fans6464
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    #281108
    SideriteSiderite
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    Aye, callous disregard. My question still stands. Seems a lot of effort to evacuate if they were intent on killing everyone. Why bother if that was the full motive?

    #281117
    IronageIron Age
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    Round em up then kill them,very efficient,where have we seen that before?.Notice how the right wing press again begin to call critics,”antisemites”?

    Would it be antisemitic to criticise Herod the Great for the slaughter of the innocents?

    #281119
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    I think the Herod in the bible is just an antiseptic trope, bearing in mind he was written after the supposed death of the Christ character.

    #281120
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    Aye, callous disregard. My question still stands. Seems a lot of effort to evacuate if they were intent on killing everyone. Why bother if that was the full motive?

    It’s less dangerous for ground troops if you pen them in refugee camps and bomb them from air by “accident” this is Netty’s wet dream and his stated life’s ambition.I said years ago he was there most dangerous man on the planet ,you using b your previous Bru name suggested I was using “tropes” and I had to look the word up, he’s proving me right. He’s setting the middle east alight and dragging us in.Bombing sovereign nations with impunity .

    #281121
    SideriteSiderite
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    Why evacuate Gazans to other places? All that could be done in Gaza City if that was the motive and not evacuating would allow more deaths; it would not be more dangerous with air strikes. It doesn’t make sense and is frankly deluded in my opinion, as is the claim Netanyahu is the world most dangerous man when you have Putin and the Ayatollah involved with more global meddling.

    #281122
    SideriteSiderite
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    I have no recollection over what that past conversation involved. However, if it is racist to use crude stereotypical language and images of a black African dictator (it is), it is the same for Netanyahu. Yet criticising blood libels against Netanyahu gets met with claims that it’s “legitimate criticism of Israel” from the ‘anti-racists’ who would never dream of excusing such against other groups.

    “Can’t even use racial slurs against the Zionists these days. It’s political correctness gone mad.”

    #281127
    fans6464
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    It’s a fact that Israel has a very over and well organised group of Lobbies in the UK that coordinates their pressure and statements in very close cooperation with the Israeli embassy. To stress this isn’t anti-Semitism , it’s fact and admitted fact by a member of Labour Friends of Israel spokesman on TV a few years ago,wish I could remember his name.

    #281130
    SideriteSiderite
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    Yeah, yeah, antisemites have been claiming that Jews have undue influence over politics for centuries and used that to justify attacks on Jews (as we see now when attacks on Jewish buildings get excused as ‘legitimate criticism’). I am sure this time it’s because of ‘legitimate criticism’ when they same people use the same arguments of those from the past.

    #281136
    HeathHeath
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    “None of this means I think Netanyahu is good”.

    Do you think he is bad?

    Do you think he is a murdering bastard?

    Do you think he is a war criminal?

    Do you think he is guilty of genocide?

    Do you think he doesn’t give an F about the Palestinians in Gaza?

    Do you think he has never had any intention to support a 2 state solution?

    Do you think he will never stop until all the Palestinians are driven out of Gaza?

    Why after over 30,000 dead civilians are you still trying to justify his actions?

    #281137
    IronageIron Age
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    I think the Herod in the bible is just an antiseptic trope, bearing in mind he was written after the supposed death of the Christ character.

    “Antiseptic trope”. I liked that one.

    Herod the Great, son of Antipater who was an ally of Julius Ceaser, friend of the Romans. Not a popular leader to his people.

    My point still stands, is it antisemitic to criticise anyone in power in Israel?

    #281138
    SideriteSiderite
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    I see. If I don’t think Netanyahu is the most evil man on the planet I must support his actions. Nuance is dead.

    I don’t think Stalin was as evil or as war mongering as Hitler (it’s a low bar). That must make me a Stalinist.

    #281139
    SideriteSiderite
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    I think the Herod in the bible is just an antiseptic trope, bearing in mind he was written after the supposed death of the Christ character.

    “Antiseptic trope”. I liked that one.

    Herod the Great, son of Antipater who was an ally of Julius Ceaser, friend of the Romans. Not a popular leader to his people.

    My point still stands, is it antisemitic to criticise anyone in power in Israel?

    I have answered that so many times, I have called Netanyahu a fascist (gets ignored – maybe it doesn’t suit the narrative) but so many times things like blood libels are made and it’s that I call out, and I get told that’s ‘legitimate criticism of Israel’. It’s possible to criticise Netanyahy, but maybe don’t go into antisemitic tropes? The left says so for dealing with anti-Muslim bigotry, and don’t make snide comments about the butcherous regime of al-Hakim or something.

    #281142
    IronageIron Age
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    I’m not actually getting at you siderite, it’s just a general observation. As soon as anyone makes a negative comment about the powers that be in Israel they are accused of antisemitism, Netanyahu is very adept at using this.
    Without adding to any conspiracy theories I actually do think the people in southern Israel were not served well, and from what I’ve seen, many of them think so too.

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