Let’s start again shall we?

Iron Bru Forums Blast Furnace Let’s start again shall we?

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  • #204762
    johnboyj charles
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    Registered On: January 5, 2014
    Topics: 8

    I must say that Neil Coxs post match statement last night was straight to the point and honest and I respect him for that. He did however tell us things that we probably allready knew and that in particular most of the squad are not up to the job. Well now let’s all move on but begin by telling those players with a care less attitude to stay away from the club and look for employment elswhere, I think most fans know who they are and will not welcome them back next season. It’s time to get rid of all the sick notes and players who dont even get near a matchday squad who are costing us a fortune for no return. Send them all away today and just use players that we know will be here next season. Improve the scouting programme and bring in some ready made footballers for next season, but most of all Mr Cox and Mr Swann please learn from this debacle and never let it happen again. We all love our football club and no one wants to desert them but this season has been very trying for all of us and I for one came close to calling it a day.

    #204764
    BobbyGmeisterBobbyGmeister
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    Registered On: January 12, 2014
    Topics: 47
    #204782
    AwaywegoAwaywego
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    Registered On: June 20, 2017
    Topics: 151

    Thought you had called it a day Charlie what has renewed you enthusiasm?

    #204787
    johnboyj charles
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    Registered On: January 5, 2014
    Topics: 8

    A manager showing some honesty.

    #204794
    SharpShooter24Sharp_Shooter24
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    Registered On: April 24, 2014
    Topics: 76

    Problem is these players who don’t give a toss or we are pretty certain won’t be here next season keep getting picked to play… I’d rather see the best of the under 23’s for the rest of the season but Cox will keep playing players who have no part to play in the future of this club!

    #204801
    NorthumbironNorthumbiron
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    Registered On: January 3, 2014
    Topics: 64

    So it’s official. There are some players in our squad who are not good enough for League Two and others who do not put in the required effort both on and off the pitch.

    In which case the question must be asked “who brought them to the club in the first place?” And perhaps more to the point “why?”

    A year ago many of us were wondering if there was hidden talent lurking in the deep recesses of the National League. The next Jamie Vardy must be out there somewhere. What we got was Myles Hippolyte!

    Of course every punt on a non-league hopeful will be just that, in which case would it not make more sense for the club to offer a one year contract with an option to extend? Getting stuck with dead wood on a two or two and a half year deal cannot be cost effective. Consider one Andrew Dales, signed from Mickleover Sports he scores on his debut and then disappears back into Scottish/non-league oblivion. Although to be fair a loan spell at Altrincham does equate to a step up from Mickleover!

    There have been several of this ilk of course. The legendary Dom Vose, and who could forget Jonny Margetts? Well all of us probably. The lesson here must surely be “if you’re not sure the goods are fit for purpose, make sure they come with a money back guarantee!”

    Then there are the wandering nomads from other EFL clubs. They’ve most likely spent one or two loans per season in the basement divisions without troubling the goals/assists statisticians and not really persuading anyone to offer them full time employment. They most likely started at a “Big Club” which probably explains why they have a savvy agent who can talk them a good game. How often have we as fans checked the stats of a new striker only to find out his most prolific spell was scoring three goals in eighteen games on loan at Spennymoor Town?

    Now I don’t want to tar all football agents with the same brush, but this bigging-up of poor to average players is not doing anyone any good. It is of course in their interest to get their clients the best deal, but their blatant misinformation (aka bullshit) is making life miserable for managers, coaches, fans and ultimately the players themselves. The more a club relies on football agents and scouting agencies the more often this will happen.

    So at Scunthorpe United we find ourselves with a rich cornucopia of non talent. The players who are up FOR it but sadly not up TO it. Those whose ability does not live up to their agent’s hyperbole. The ones whose agents promised them that a stint at lowly Scunny would be a stepping stone to Championship/Premiership football and expect such clubs to be fighting over their signature. Young guys desperately in need of an on-field leader to develop them, who find themselves on board a rudderless Titanic.

    Why is this? It can only be down to the club’s recruitment policy. Why so many Dom Voses? Why so many players who throw a strop? Why so many home grown youngsters thrown into a struggling team in their wrong position? Why are our best players not tied to a contract but the poor ones are?

    It’s not all doom and gloom though, because we do have success stories. Manny Onariase has seamlessly stepped up from non-league. Journeyman Alex Gilliead has been Mr Consistency, and home grown Mason O’Malley has not only walked straight into this team but also the ROI U21 squad!

    The problem is that we need 12-15 such players, not 4-5.

    Recruitment HAS to be better this summer. We can’t rely on agents or agencies to deliver, we need to be proactive.

    Mr Swann said it had already started. I hope his priorities match our own.

    6 users thanked author for this post.
    #204806
    FerriteFerrite
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    Registered On: December 23, 2013
    Topics: 98

    Now I don’t want to tar all football agents with the same brush, but this bigging-up of poor to average players is not doing anyone any good. It is of course in their interest to get their clients the best deal, but their blatant misinformation (aka bullshit) is making life miserable for managers, coaches, fans and ultimately the players themselves. The more a club relies on football agents and scouting agencies the more often this will happen.

    Caveat emptor. You can’t blame the fox for acting like a fox.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #204809
    NorthumbironNorthumbiron
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    Registered On: January 3, 2014
    Topics: 64

    But you can stop chasing after him!

    #204812
    FerriteFerrite
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    Registered On: December 23, 2013
    Topics: 98

    Pretty much exactly my point NI!

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    #204814
    IronaweIronawe
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    Registered On: December 31, 2013
    Topics: 37

    We seem to buy from select agencies, those players are not up to it (most), injured – either underlying or persistent niggles – or not the manager’s. This started at least with McAll then Hurst – who Swann said went partly because he increased the squad not reduced it – he had to because the players given to him were not good enough. Then this last close season was the worst recruitment drive in the history of GP maybe more.

    Swann probably thinks he goes through so many managers he may as well buy who he wants but that has to change and we’ll have to hope Cox gets his targets – but he and Jem are miles away from the Chairman in thinking (funny that – two ex prem footballers v not football)

    #204822
    FerriteFerrite
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    Registered On: December 23, 2013
    Topics: 98

    Swann probably thinks he goes through so many managers he may as well buy who he wants but that has to change and we’ll have to hope Cox gets his targets – but he and Jem are miles away from the Chairman in thinking (funny that – two ex prem footballers v not football)

    Far be it for me to side with Swann in these matters but I actually think that having some sort of club strategy for signings is the right way to go. You can’t be overhauling the squad every season when you change the manager, there needs to be some sort of common thread. Of course, these things have to be balanced and managers should feel like they have the tools to do their jobs but they shouldn’t have sole/final say on signings.

    #204823
    GurnelistaGurnelista
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    Registered On: April 2, 2014
    Topics: 12

    Good post NI.

    We shouldn’t forget the role of the ‘selection committee’ at GP, which must carry the can for wasting so much money on inadequate players.

    I have no idea what role Swann junior has in this, but the very idea that a lad in his 20s might be experienced enough to know and recognize in others the attributes which go towards making a suitable player for a club like ours, is really beyond belief.

    That’s because it’s not just a question of a footballer’s skill, but also has to do with their character and temperament, and whether they can respond to the kind of management style in place at the time.

    And that’s why managers are keen to make these decisions for themselves. It’s also why – despite the odd success – someone so young and comparatively inexperienced is ill-qualified to make such important decisions on behalf of the club.

    2 users thanked author for this post.
    #204824
    IronaweIronawe
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    Registered On: December 31, 2013
    Topics: 37

    Mamagers should have their targets and this may come from experience or ex pros scouting network and then the portfolio of players discussed. Then discuss with Chairman and who we can and can’t get. Issue I have is that the club think we can have a chief scout with no football knowledge linked to a family committee – you might think you are getting a good player but managers know more about attitude application willingness to fight. We signed mainly has/never been’s with a view to develop but a lot of them had no fight in them, carrying injuries, weren’t mentally built for league two football and went missing – and a few of them thought they were too good for us

    #204826
    cassidystashcassidystash
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    Registered On: January 4, 2014
    Topics: 92

    I have no problem with a manager being denied a player he would like for reasons probably financial, it’s not unreasonable for the chairman to have the final say in this. I do, however, have a major problem with a manager being given a player he doesn’t want, chosen by somebody else and possibly one he doesn’t even know.

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    #204827
    AwaywegoAwaywego
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    Registered On: June 20, 2017
    Topics: 151

    Hurst made t quite clear he didn’t want Van veen, but Kev’s professionalism (and goals in Micky mouse games) forced Hurst to change his mind.

    #204828
    BigLeftToeBigLeftToe
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    Registered On: June 6, 2017
    Topics: 4

    Van Veen was re-signed during the January transfer window when McCall was in charge.

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    #204829
    AwaywegoAwaywego
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    Registered On: June 20, 2017
    Topics: 151

    Granted BLT but Hurst still made it clear he wasn’t going to be part of his plans. Hurst and kev both did a good job, Hurst not being up himself and kev for working hard.

    #204832
    Iron-aweIron-awe
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    Registered On: June 21, 2017
    Topics: 11

    Lets be right about this, VanVeen became a lot more hard working and less sulky under Hurst, I always believe Hurst laid it on the line to VanVeen about what he wanted from him but fair play to the player for responding, maybe he realised he had to finally pull his finger out and graft and not rely on the bit of magic he sometimes produced that had his admirers salivating. Fair play to both parties for doing the right thing all round.

    #204834
    NorthumbironNorthumbiron
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    Registered On: January 3, 2014
    Topics: 64

    Kev has blown hot and cold under several managers, so probably isn’t a good example.

    In my book the greatest act of vandalism was the signing of Loft + Jarvis + Mooney + Turan last summer.

    No matter how hard I try I just can’t get my head round it.

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    #204837
    IronaweIronawe
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    Registered On: December 31, 2013
    Topics: 37

    I agree with NI – those no mark signings will cripple us until we can get rid.

    The Mooney signing is the Spinal Tap of lower league football

    #204840
    cassidystashcassidystash
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    Registered On: January 4, 2014
    Topics: 92

    I like Loft, I think used properly (i.e. not a lone striker) he’s plenty good enough and can improve. Jarvis still has plenty to prove, Mooney only got a year but a 2 year deal for Turan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    #204857
    alcazaralcazar
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    Registered On: December 24, 2013
    Topics: 50

    While we have Swanns running the club, paying Swanns to scout, the shite will continue.

    Been saying this for some time.

    And before Deerey and Heath start bealing again, I NEVER said I was the only one.

    The first…maybe.

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    #204867
    FerriteFerrite
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    Registered On: December 23, 2013
    Topics: 98

    I have no problem with a manager being denied a player he would like for reasons probably financial, it’s not unreasonable for the chairman to have the final say in this. I do, however, have a major problem with a manager being given a player he doesn’t want, chosen by somebody else and possibly one he doesn’t even know.

    That’s all very well but what happens when you change the manager? Do you have to sign a whole new squad for them? Given how disposable managers are these days, it makes sense to have more consistency in the type of football played and the types of players signed? Which is not to say that the Swann’s committee have been getting it right, by any means! But I think the principle is sound.

    #204876
    BobbyGmeisterBobbyGmeister
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    Registered On: January 12, 2014
    Topics: 47

    Kevin de Bruyne doesn’t have an agent, just saying…

    #204878
    cassidystashcassidystash
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    Registered On: January 4, 2014
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    Ferrite wrote:- “That’s all very well but what happens when you change the manager? Do you have to sign a whole new squad for them?”

    That’s what normally happens, surely you have to support the current manager and, to my mind, that has to mean he has input into signings. (It helps if the manager stays long enough to cover a players 2 year contract of course.)

    #204880
    FerriteFerrite
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    Registered On: December 23, 2013
    Topics: 98

    That’s what normally happens, surely you have to support the current manager and, to my mind, that has to mean he has input into signings. (It helps if the manager stays long enough to cover a players 2 year contract of course.)

    It’s what has happened in the past but I think football has changed, especially as managers everywhere have become more disposable. Clubs like Brentford & Barnsley, punching well above their weight, work like this. Swansea got to the Premier League doing the same thing: the manager changes but the overall approach doesn’t.

    Of course, those clubs appointed managers who clearly bought into this plan and worked with it, managers whose preferred playing style matched the club’s plans. I’m not sure you can say that about some of our recent appointments.

    #204882
    IronaweIronawe
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    Registered On: December 31, 2013
    Topics: 37

    Results will speak for themselves whichever strategy we go with. All I know is that Swann signed most of the squad based on his opinion.

    It’s been the worst season of football for a long period of time.

    The reason (one of) we are still a league club is Karacan a managers pick. Not saying Cox is a great manager far from it and I’m not saying the club should not follow a particular strategy but for Christ sake don’t let any Swann member decide who they want – they just have not got a clue. Footballing people need to be the main drivers of this and Cox is a footballing person.

    #204883
    BigLeftToeBigLeftToe
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    Registered On: June 6, 2017
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    If we’re going just on this season’s signings then Swann and his “transfer committee” signed Spence, Onariase, Mooney, Vincent and Jarvis before Cox arrived.

    In comparison Cox was here when we signed Loft, Turan, Hippolyte, Taylor, Brown, Howard, Taft, Karacan and Howe.

    There are complete duds in both lists, likewise some of our better performers. This season has just been a shambles from the start and blame lies at the foot of both Swann and Cox.

    #204884
    NorthumbironNorthumbiron
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    Registered On: January 3, 2014
    Topics: 64

    And some of the players if Tuesday night was anything to go by!

    #204885
    PaulSanfran49
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    Registered On: December 23, 2013
    Topics: 66

    I think Hippolyte was a Cox choice.

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