Reply To: Take Back Control

[Siderite]

Just Iron wrote:

Thanks for a genuine and logical … and on the face of it ‘courteous’ response , Deerey. You have ‘previous’ on this …. which I appreciate.

I don’t think it’s a secret that I am not in favour of how the EU emerged out of the initial economic cooperation. Although I was roundly mocked for stating that some things should be judged over a longer timespan than a few years I still hold to that. There’s certainly plenty of evidence/activity across the EU to indicate that all may not be well in coming years.
I definitely agree that some of our present economic woes are attributable to the economic pain of leaving the EU. If I didn’t believe that the path it took was pretty well inevitable then I could even be tempted for the old days of purely economic union. But I’m not really even tempted on that.

(I’ll post this then add a bit more … unless I get jumped on first…. because I keep losing text and it’s a bit frustrating)

I can respect that view. There were many things which I didn’t like about the EU, it did seem to encroach and the electoral system was highly flawed. There are other aspects I did like, some things do benefit from a collaboration possible with the EU, with Russia a more evident threat it would have been a useful outlet to bond with allies, instead of having distractions over conflicts in trade.

What got me was the attitude of some who thought we could have our cake an eat it. As Gurny points out, a member’s club (which the EU, the Single Market etc are) will have conditions, including a payment to access the system and legislation for commonality. They were never going to offer us trade deals on the same level as within these markets, because to do so would render them pointless. Yet arguing this point with some was impossible, as it would be “the EU punishing us” or “they need us more than we need them, so they will undermine their own markets for us” or “you just hate this country and are arguing in bad faith.”

No, it was cold reality. I wish it wasn’t the case, I wish I could be more optimistic, but the economy matters and a poorer economic deal with Europe spells poorly for growth and financial betterment. Only last week it was revealed that exports to the EU has dropped by 16% since leaving. They make up the majority of our nearest neighbours, and those who aren’t are in the Single Market (e.g. Norway). Those who think CANZUK or trade deals with tiny nations like Fiji can make up for it are deluding themselves. Trade is usually most common with neighbours, due to logistics and other things. A harmful relationship would be to our detriment with the EU, as we have seen. Any future trade deal would be on their terms, we don’t have that much leverage and all the guff about the no deal ‘nuclear option’ didn’t produce much. We were told of the necessity of that, yet we still have a deal most are unhappy with, one which doesn’t see us better off and one which didn’t see the EU come flocking to us for deals on our terms, as was implied.

Sure, people can say that the EU is in bad shape, but they have done for years, and it still carries on. Will it for our lifetime? Who knows? However, we can only judge on the now, not hypotheticals and wishful thinking from some, and the decision currently doesn’t look that promising, economically, to me.