Iron Bru › Forums › Non Football › Bombing hospitals › Reply To: Bombing hospitals
I do agree, DM. It’s bad and it does make me sad for all involved. I realise my opinion on here is more pro-Israel than most, but I am trying to put forward that it’s more complex than that. I have made no claims about how successful the war has been for Israel yet, my point is more about that conflict is inevitable after it was initiated by Hamas. Any ceasefire without the causes of the conflict being addressed (e.g. hostage release) is fruitless, and it’s not just on Israel to call such. Hamas should do their bit in releasing hostages, and other nations with links could tell them the game is up. They want to play around as Nazis, they should deal with some repercussions. Will bombing release the hostages? I don’t know, but it might destroy Hamas infrastructure and cause them to give up and release the hostages. The other options are diplomacy, while Israeli citizens are tortured, and this could well take years, leading to anger about citizens being mistreated and eventual conflict anyway. Then there’s do nothing and let the hostages rot, which is unpalatable.
It’s not like Hamas, PIJ or Iran give one damn about Palestinian life. Yesterday’s actions show that, and the eagerness of some media and others to immediately take the word of a Hamas minister shows a bias in determining what’s causing the issues. More investigators from outside have got involved and given their interpretations of it being a failed missile incident:
Conclusion:
A missile launched by a Palestinian group exploded mid-air (Reason unknown) and one piece fell on the hospital causing an explosion.
The geolocation and timing of the footage is conclusive.
More information will be added to this thread.
11/X pic.twitter.com/jDJn4OZJLO
— GeoConfirmed (@GeoConfirmed) October 17, 2023
We all know war is bad, it’s a cliche. Yet sometimes war is inevitable, and always will be a massive risk after what happened over a week ago. I hope that Biden’s visit sorts out aid arrangements for water, food and medicine, because that is something I think we can all agree needs to happen. Israel needs to stop preventing that, I definitely agree. They need to make it reach those who need it, because the UN have already said that Hamas have been intentionally taking and refusing to give out medical supplies. Though, I think it’s important to remember the war’s context, and that means putting pressure on Hamas to do what is needed. WWII is regarded as a just war and outside of the far-left (initially) and far-right, no-one demanded we made ceasefire with Germany after they invaded Poland for the sake of civilian casualties. Despite WWII’s understandable nature there were still civilian atrocities from the Allies. These include:
Soviet mass rape – Potentially over 2,000,000 German, Austrian, Hungarian, Polish and Yugoslavian women raped by the Red Army’s liberation.
UK/American/French rape – Potentially 200,000 German women raped by American troops, potentially 45,000 women raped by British troops and 50,000 by French troops.
Allied bombings of Axis powers – 395,000-635,000 German civilians killed by Allied bombings in Hamburg, Dresden, Leipzig, Stuttgart etc. 330,000-900,000 Japanese civilians killed by Allied bombings in Tokyo, Hiroshima, Nagasaki etc. 60,000-100,000 Italian killed in bombs, 19,000-30,000 Hungarians, 6,000 Romanians, 1,000 Bulgarians and 2,000 Thai civilians killed in bomb attacks.
Soviet Union ethnic cleansing – Several ethnic groups deported to Siberia and central Asia for alleged collaboration with Nazi Germany. This includes Volga Germans, Poles, Kalmyks, Chechens and Crimean Tatars, among others. The death toll from those who suffered with famine, illness and exposure was likely over 500,000. Soviets would kill those who resisted.
I could list more, such as some of the actions of the Yugoslav partisans (who were the most supportable Balkans force). Many of these were unsupportable and disgusting. Many call the Soviet ethnic cleansing operations genocide. Yet it doesn’t make the war any less of a just war given the context or make our alliance with the Soviet Union wrong, even if it was the lesser of two evils. Some of this is worse than what Israel has done, which is comparable to our bombing raids on Germany. I don’t believe we called for citizen evacuation either. Some of our raids were for infrastructure in aim, but many doubt some like Dresden were. There has been debate over the necessity of this, but most seem to understand why conflict was happening, despite civilian risk, and don’t use it as a means to equivocate between Allies and Axis.
To reiterate, I would like to see Israel minimise its casualties, yet how much can they make this 0% is a question, especially when Hamas try and maximise casualties and prevent civilians from escaping. None of it is good, it’s all upsetting for all involved, but my main goal here is to say it’s not so easy to say that Israel should refrain from conflict or that civilians can escape harm in such. I wish it was another way, and maybe it can be in the future. There won’t be any of it though while Hamas have any power.