Reply To: Idiot of the Year

[Just Iron]

No apologies for ‘resurrecting’ ( sooo clever!!) this ageing thread …but I’ve not had any time until now. ‘I’ve decided to go in for a penny, in for a pound.’
I won’t answer every observation/question posed to me … but thanks to everyone who genuinely tried to follow my previous reasonings surrounding my faith, even when we didn’t see eye to eye. You know who you are. ( I don’t exclude your good self in that appreciation, Deerey, because although I found your response the bleakest and saddest of all the replies I did appreciate your searing honesty. I do hope it’s not the last word on that for you.)
To the one or two who don’t seem to think that a discussion thread entails actually thinking about or even properly reading what others have actually posted I feel a bit more frustrated, though not greatly so. You may know who you are … but probably don’t care.
One responder even felt it appropriate to cite that , presumably, my faith position meant that I somehow contested Galileo’s ‘fanciful notion’ that the sun didn’t orbit around the earth and, although I had stated quite clearly my views on the age of the earth, still dismissed me because of ‘the fact that the age of the Earth is set at around 6-7,000 years.’ Throw in a ‘nonsense’ and an ‘unintelligent and superstitious’ and there you have a closed and shut case.
Even worse was my old friend who never fails to turn up and share his superior wisdom whenever I share my defective worldview, especially on matters of faith. I did say that it was only a matter of time, Gurney. From chastising us all, or at least finding it amusing from your elevated position, that we should even presume to have such a discussion … through to referencing my ‘closed mind’ and lack of reflection on how my flawed thinking giving rise to such ‘intensely written guff’ ever came into being. I draw your attention to your statement that ‘ Of course, if you’ve been steeped in religion since birth, it must be so much more difficult to renounce your god .’ Although there is much that I’m at odds with in regard to BPG I do know that he came to faith around the age of 60. As for me ..age 24 from no Church background just after I graduated and began teaching.
But none of that will matter. You’ve demonstrated consistently that you want others to be held to account for what they post … what have you repeatedly said about ‘Gaslighting ‘ and ‘straw manning’ and ‘Jonnies’ and ‘doppelgangers’ .. yet you never take responsibility when your own assumptions and presumptions and inaccuracies are cited. With some perception you invite others to a little more humility and open mindeness rather than : ‘ if someone comes along and gives you a scientific explanation of the universe, it makes you feel silly. It puts your beliefs under serious threat, so you feel cross with them and either criticise them or ignore them. But you shouldn’t, because by interrogating your own beliefs, asking questions, reading, talking to a variety of intelligent people, you could learn something.’ I guess you deem yourself to be above such a process and therefore exempted from accountability.
Ah well. That’s off my chest ..but I don’t expect it to land anywhere productive.
In challenging one another’s views we are all surely aiming to bring others to a more healthy and accurate perception of reality. The danger is, of course, and as Gurney kind of indicated but with evident lack of self awareness , that when our deeply held notions are challenged we may well lapse into a defensive ‘flailing’ where, at its most pathological, we resort to misrepresentation, mockery, insults, name calling etc An invitation to interrogate our own beliefs and even begin again is at least a strong part of the meaning of the Biblical term ‘Repent.’ Because of its association with ‘finger wagging’ and ‘fun spoiling’ it certainly ain’t a popular word … but when, for example, I’m asked to change my view on my faith it is .. essentially .. a call to repent. A call to adopt a new reality and live out of that. I’ve actually done that .. although in the opposite direction .. once in my life .. at age 24.
And all of that leads me to say that I totally get why there is such a spectrum of responses on the Forum whenever I take it in this direction. It’s because a Christian claims to ‘see’ something that isn’t visible. And that can be puzzling to some .. but downright frustrating to the point of anger to others.
If you’ve seen Kevin Costner’s allegorical film ‘Field of Dreams’ it’s the Brother in Law/ Financial advisor who warns the family to sell up before bankruptcy. They are absorbed in the spooky baseball game that people will eventually flock to but which brother in law in total frustration can’t see. Then he can. And his advice changes.
The realm that I ‘see’ is hidden even though its right here. It’s transcendent but not distant. Deliberately so. God wants to be pursued because he knows that in that process something happens in the depths of a human being. Then they begin to ‘see’ into a realm that mere limited reason and perception by the five natural senses can’t access. Jesus said that ‘unless a man becomes as a little child he cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven.’ The perception to many is that anyone believing that has indeed become childish. Its been said on the Forum in various ways a number of times. But the intended meaning is that we approach these matters with an openness and honesty and humility which can only be called ‘Childlike.’
With such an approach we might talk more attentively to that relative or friend who claims to have a faith. Or we might send off for ‘Surprised by Joy’ by C S Lewis. Or have a listen to John Lennox or Alister McGrath. That’s what I would do if I were you.
So I’ll sign of with one encouragement … ‘Repent ..For the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand!’