February 5, 2021 at 7:21 pm #202238
‘One of the huge benefits from the UK’s decision is that we will be able to help out other countries and far more quickly than would otherwise have been possible.’
Now this point about Brexit I can agree with. Although I can’t see it from the present government, with particular reference to cutting the Foreign Aid budget and the type of comment LK came out with. Are the current Tories a reflection of that nationalist approach? Certainly, IMO.February 5, 2021 at 7:24 pm #202240
Refreshing to see you resisting from ‘usual suspects’, ‘pathetic’, ‘idiots’ etc, Bucks, and others doing likewise to facilitate a reasonable discussion.February 6, 2021 at 12:07 am #202247BucksironParticipantOffline
Registered On: December 24, 2013
I don’t agree with LK and nor would the vast majority of Tories, Deerey. The foreign aid budget hasn’t been cut for any reason other than the country simply can’t afford it. When we can it will come back.
Your idea of a typical Conservative is so way off as to be comical. Patriotic, yes, and nothing wrong with that. As for the Tories being “nationalistic” that would be comical except that it isn’t funny. You’re entitled to your opinion, of course, but Starmer’s no fool and he knows the reality.
But why make your last comment? Why do you have to “play” the victim? I’m no angel but I’ve never claimed to be. I know I can be incredibly irritating but so can everyone on this board. The difference is that I don’t have others coming on to “thank” or agree with me all the time.
All I’ve ever done is fight back. That’s why I’ve made those comments. No more, no less. The comments made about me — and my family — by some on this board have been truly appalling. I’ve been called a liar on numerous occasions for doing nothing other than offering an opinion, a fascist and, most recent of all, had “the Hitler” comment thrown at me. Well, as those who understand social networks will know, anyone who lowers themselves to that has lost the argument.
But it’s the comments made about mental health that have been the truly low point. It doesn’t bother me personally because, as I’ve said on many occasions, I don’t come on this board to be liked and I genuinely don’t care what any of you think about me personally.
The reason it hurts so much is because it creates the very stigma around mental health that we desperately need to overcome. Mental health is a physical illness like any other. Would people make the same comments about someone with cancer, or about someone with a disability? Would someone make the same comments about a black person?
Some would, but they’d be rightly chastised for doing so. Yet somehow with mental health it’s “OK”. Well, it isn’t OK. It’s never been OK and it never will be. It isn’t just sad it’s sick.
If nothing else I sincerely hope we’ll never see any of those comments on here ever again.February 6, 2021 at 12:40 am #202248
That’s why I said, ‘and others doing likewise to facilitate a reasonable discussion’ Bucks. I’m as guilty as anyone else for jibing you. I admit that. All I’m saying is, ‘can we all move on from all this now?’. I wasn’t trying to play the victim but I can understand why you might think that. I think we’ve got to such a state over years of wrangling and insults that amount to baggage. But I do think there’s an opportunity now for us all to chew the cud in a reasonable manner without one of us introducing an insult or sleight. I think if we all committed to that without flying off the handle as soon as someone deviates, we’d be making progress. Starmer and his current ideas btw are another kettle of fish and another subject. I’m sure we’ll have plenty of opportunity to mull over that.
1 user thanked author for this post.February 6, 2021 at 12:46 am #202249
‘The foreign aid budget hasn’t been cut for any reason other than the country simply can’t afford it.’
Just as an afterthought Bucks, ‘can’t afford it’? I think maybe one for another topic because I would question why we can’t afford it given the billions we’ve found for dealing with the pandemic thus far. A juicy one to get in to with no right and wrongs. Peace and all that.February 6, 2021 at 10:10 am #202251
‘Can’t afford it’ is a choice. It’s not that there’s no money left, it’s because it’s not a high priority. When anyone says ‘I/we can’t afford it’ over a new purchase it means it’s not that important to us, otherwise we’d buy it. Same as Foreign Aid. Cutting it is a choice not a necessity. Austerity measures are a choice, ask any economist. ‘There’s simply no money left’ was a myth perpetuated by a Tory government to make the previous Labour government look frivolous. And by God that worked, along with demonising Trade Unions as feckless and lazy.
I digress, but the same point can be applied to taking a nationalist or internationalist approach to vaccinations. And we’re not talking about images of flag waving here, it’s about protectionism. But it’s a false economy. It’s as important to help vaccinate other countries as well as our own or it will keep mutating and coming back. Nothing to do with that wretched phrase ‘virtue signalling’. Anything else is short sighted. I’ve given the expert options of WHO and a current SAGE member in defence of my argument. What have you provided Bucks? Mere opinion.February 6, 2021 at 12:11 pm #202257NorthumbironParticipantOffline
Registered On: January 3, 2014
No one had heard of Covid in June of 2016. So any reference to Brexit is pointless.February 6, 2021 at 1:56 pm #202269GurnelistaParticipantOffline
Registered On: April 2, 2014
I’ve given the expert options of WHO and a current SAGE member in defence of my argument. What have you provided Bucks? Mere opinion.
It’s the same with his other comments. Not a shred of evidence.
IB is at its best when the attention-seekers and their empty accusations, childish insults, gaslighting of others and undoubted sickness are ignored, or at least given the same kind of respect accorded to bothersome vermin.
For some, the attention-seeking extends to a certain kind of politics, and the apparent failure to understand that Britain is part of a global community and like any community, if parts of it are severely unequal, disadvantaged and marginalised, everyone suffers.
Here’s another example. If you live in a rough city where parts of the community are poor and crime-ridden, with few amenities or possibilities to thrive, the crime will spread to the wealthier parts and to the city centres where more affluent people frequent. Your car, your house, your family and your streets are negatively affected, as is your own personal well-being.
With global travel and communications the same thing happens internationally. War and oppression in poverty stricken countries drives migration drug and people trafficking to the more affluent areas.
Yes, you can turn your back, shut your doors, and say it’s nothing to do with us. Except, it does have to do with us, because it won’t go away, and the crisis in some parts will affect the well-being in and of other parts.
And it’s the same with Covid and the vaccine, as Greylag pointed out at the beginning.
There is of course a humanitarian responsibility too, and for some on this board, a Christian one.
Alas, there are folk for whom the power of pounds, pence, and populist politics will override all else.
It’s the world we currently live in.February 6, 2021 at 2:17 pm #202271HeathParticipantOffline
Registered On: August 5, 2017
“The difference is that I don’t have others coming on to “thank” or agree with me all the time”.
I’ll ask you the same question you asked Deerey. Why do YOU have to play the victim?
You’ve made your point about mental health over and over again. Why do you need to repeat it in virtually every post you write?February 6, 2021 at 3:26 pm #202274
I actually thought it was uncalled for but was feeling charitable in my response.February 8, 2021 at 12:54 pm #202327
Surely more evidence that an international approach is necessary? Localised approaches to pandemics just don’t work. Take Johnson and co’s ill fated ‘whack-a-mole’ approach in the UK.February 8, 2021 at 2:38 pm #202333
Deereyme raised my hopes ..even drew a thanks from me … for a fair and reasoned and .. dare I say ….. conciliatory post to Bucks above.
THEN THIS :
‘IB is at its best when the attention-seekers and their empty accusations, childish insults, gaslighting of others and undoubted sickness are ignored, or at least given the same kind of respect accorded to bothersome vermin.’
‘Childish insults’, ‘undoubted sickness’, ‘bothersome vermin.’ This from the man who has consistently responded to the posts of myself and several others by asserting that they are all from one poster .. and then feeling free to attribute the postings of others to me on that basis!! You are so high up in your elevated ivory tower Gurnelista that you can’t begin to see how nauseating and nasty is the flavour of your approach. It stinks this board out in a way that no other poster, no matter how impassioned, irritating, ideological, religious or superficial does. I would call you out as a rank hypocrite but have to refrain from that because hypocrisy is predicated on at least having some idea of how inconsistent and contradictory your approach is. But you have no idea. You are simply blind and ignorant. You trumpet your
concern for ‘ the poor, unequal, disadvantaged and marginalised’ and appeal to ‘humanitarian and Christian’ values …oh, such an elevated level of tolerance from your moral high ground .. but let a fellow human being express views on a simple forum that don’t resonate with yours and then let the vitriol flow! You will kill this board off eventually by your noxious attitude. Bucks will get fed up again. BRI will see more clearly what he has already sighed over. Deereyme regularly shows that he has insight to the dangers of becoming uncharitable. Heath is well capable of holding strongly to his views without resorting to viciousness. But you , Gurney .. you show no evidence that you are capable of shaking free from this vile, vicious and deadening approach.February 8, 2021 at 2:59 pm #202335
…. an afterthought, Gurney. I never want to write anyone off. Prove me wrong by acknowledging that you’ve been too impassioned, crossed lines and hope to do better. I’ll wait and see. And maybe even I will then feel free to chip in from time to time on the real issues.February 8, 2021 at 4:59 pm #202339GurnelistaParticipantOffline
Registered On: April 2, 2014
I was wondering if Les would comment on the ‘Christian’ comment, above.
“Impassioned and crossed lines”? Here we go again with that old Spanish proverb ‘Zapatero a tus zapatos!’
Because if anything is likely to kill off this board, it’s posts merely dedicated to ‘judgments’ about others…. Gurn, Heathy, DM, BRI… you just forgot to give everyone the usual marks out of ten!
But since you’re so keen to hijack this thread, what do you make of those who use this board to spread lies, fake news and propaganda?
Or those who use it just to influence others for personal / political gain?
Or those who use several identities to appear numerous in the political and culture wars, in the full knowledge that if their cover is blown, they can reinvent themselves without any responsibility whatsoever? I think it must rather appeal, no? A bit like ghost writing, or assuming a nom-de-plume.
Or what has made you so convinced about Farage, Trump et al., that they’ve made you able to believe things which are demonstrably false?
Yet despite the litany of lies, hate and malfeasance, the racism, misogyny, even blasphemy… you claim on here you want ‘courtesy and respect’!
Strange, but if you like Farage and Trump and their brand of free speech, you’d be better off with Jim Davidson.
So, instead of preaching about others, you really should get on and engage with the topics, call out the lies and fake news, and show some Christian/moral leadership.
No wonder the country is in such a state, with such a catastrophic failure by those who should know better. Not unlike the club, as Ferrite wryly observes elsewhere.February 8, 2021 at 8:58 pm #202345
So ‘doubling down it is.’ As I said before … just post the whole lot in Spanish then you will spare us from your toxic ideological purity.February 22, 2021 at 12:42 pm #202634HeathParticipantOffline
Registered On: August 5, 2017
I was pulled up earlier in this thread about calling out the so called Covid Recovery Group as killers.
Having witnessed their “leader”, Mark Harper, every day since last week on the radio and TV, my statement clearly stands.
The medical reasons for a slow and cautious release of lockdown measures have been clearly explained to this idiot over and over again. The scientists are clear, the vast majority of the population gets it, even bloody Johnson had finally got it.
But Harper is on again know proposing continuation of avoidable mass murder of our citizens!!
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