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  • #135056

    THE-99%
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    Yet on AGW and Brexit, ooooooooh, yes, support the establishment…….

    The government are pro-Brexit; supporting the government’s stance is not anti-establishment.

    The government are pro-Brexit?

    You mean the government that leafleted every home in the UK telling us to remain? That government?

    They may be carrying out the will of the majority, as they promised, but pro-Brexit? Not on your Nelly.

    used money to do so,I bet if leave had such help it would be against electoral rules and they’d be screaming cheat from the rooftops

    #135289

    Gurnelista
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    (leave supporters voted) to remove the UK from the whim of a none democratics organisation headed by a President/presidents not one EU citizen had a vote for.
    To remove ourselves from an organisation that is hurtling towards and planning openly now to be a federal state,it’s now a Union not a common market..

    It’s often claimed the EU is undemocratic and governs on ‘whims’ however the reality is less straightforward.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/13/is-the-eu-undemocratic-referendum-reality-check

    We should also remember the UK system of ‘first past the post’ is hardly democratic. For one thing, a party can actually gain more votes than the party which wins the election. Parties also gain disproportionately little representation – as we saw with UKIP’s 1 seat for 3.9 million votes.

    The British system is also presided over by an unelected head – the monarch – and has a House of Lords full of unelected peers (some hereditary, others appointed by the government of the day, such as Danny Finkelstein, a mere Tory hack) who really can and do scupper legislation ‘on a whim’. There are also the ‘Lords Spiritual’ and their PR for a product which doesn’t even exist!

    So, if a lack of democracy is what we’re concerned about, maybe we should start by criticising our own.

    Moreover, being isolated/independent has its limits. Because we’re in a globalised world, alliances are necessary and unavoidable, whether we like them or not. And that includes the alliances between and with N. Ireland and the Republic. What would the passionate leavers have done about the border issue? Nobody gave a thought about that until after the referendum, which well illustrates the poverty of the debate over leave and remain.

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    #135304

    Northumbiron
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    The British system is also presided over by an unelected head – the monarch

    Not true!

    The monarchy has had sod all say in how the country is run for over three hundred years.

    I do however agree on your other points.

    #135308

    Iron-awe
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    The British system is also presided over by an unelected head – the monarch

    Not true!

    The monarchy has had sod all say in how the country is run for over three hundred years.

    I do however agree on your other points.

    I agree NI but I begrudge us paying money out every year to help keep them in their privileged positions. Lenin and his mates had the right idea IMO.

    #135313

    Northumbiron
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    They are basically a very high maintenance tourist attraction coupled with a reality show soap opera.

    However they don’t deserve to be taken into a cellar and shot!

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    #135316

    Gurnelista
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    No, I’m not advocating a bloody revolution either!

    And true, the monarch hasn’t directly intervened in politics in centuries, as far as we know, but maybe that isn’t so relevant. Just the fact that she’s there and holding the powers that she does, makes her influential; the power to appoint and dismiss the Prime Minister and other ministers; the power to open, prolong and dissolve Parliament. She can also take the country to war (and stop it), while commanding the armed forces. She’s also head of the Commonwealth, etc etc.

    And she’s also at the head of a class system which still makes the country less meritocratic and democratic – for example we still have hereditary peers in the House of Lords, ruling over us by accident of birth.

    Plus, no doubt at some time in the past you’ve stood up and asked God to save her, NI, as have we all. You should probably have been ‘ad up by Regina for some of those bad jokes too (sorry)! So, really it’s just her presence which makes her powerful.

    #135321

    Iron-awe
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    They are basically a very high maintenance tourist attraction coupled with a reality show soap opera.

    However they don’t deserve to be taken into a cellar and shot!

    I wasn’t advocating they be shot NI, just removed from their position of privilege and “their” so called assets be taken over by the country for the benefit of the country. None of his sent into exile with plenty of dosh rubbish either, take it all and give it back where it belongs. Viva la revolution!!!

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