March 10, 2021 at 10:10 am #203303
I see Lizzie Dripping has released a statement saying there will be a private enquiry into the allegations about racism within the royal establishment against Harry and Meghans son. Very good, shame the Palace announced publicly that there would be an enquiry into Meghans alleged bullying of personal staff. I presume the outcome of that will never be revealed then?March 10, 2021 at 10:28 am #203306March 10, 2021 at 10:28 am #203307
Who knows? Hopefully the whole affair and possibly Andrew’s too (no pun intended), will give a welcome jolt to the monarchy and press arrangements.
However, where her Maj. is concerned I admit feeling some dissonance.
On the one hand, most of us have never known another monarch, and see her as a fairly benign, and certainly a force for good. She makes a decent fist of a very difficult hand.
And yet, she sits at the head of, and perpetuates a class system which is at best ludicrous, and at worst, profoundly dysfunctional and damaging.
The H and M interview was like listening to two cult members who had recently torn themselves away from a weird, sinister community – one which involved curtsying to their own grandma, ridiculous costumes and customs, strict expectations about behaviour, etc. extending even to skin colour – an attitude which legitimizes racism in society more generally.
Moreover, it’s a cult into which the closest members are actually born into, like many of the Lords (and ladies) who rule our daily lives.
In the 21st century of the UK, by any stretch of the imagination, this is absurd. To deny it is like standing in the rain and deny you’re getting wet.
But, what is to be done about ‘the Firm? Abdication? Should Liz II be Liz the last? Because, misquoting Larkin, they fk you up, your queen and king.March 10, 2021 at 12:26 pm #203322
The relevance of the Royal Family in modern times has been discussed it seems “forever” but nothing really changes and that is because the establishment don’t want change, just look how long it took the barons to get King John to sign Magna Carta FFS. The coming generations and their attitude and perceived pack of interest in the monarchy could overtime bring about change but the majority of us forum users will be long gone. I think we need Lizzie and Charles dead and gone before the relevant of William once he is King may see more interest in the abolition of the monarchy , it’s just a thought but the thing we need to get the ball rolling is the abolition of the House of Lords IMO. If that was replaced by an elected upper chamber ( every four years) Senate type of set up of say just a hundred members all from different regions of the country, that just might start the abolition agenda come more into focus. The Lords a a ridiculous set up, far too many members the majority grace and favour buddies of previous government’s of all shades and this hereditary angle is absolutely pathetic and so undemocratic to be laughable. Don’t hold your breath though, people who attain power through privilege and not democratic means are tough little gits to unseat.March 10, 2021 at 12:44 pm #203326
I think your last sentence is the long and short if it IA, regarding both the Lords and Monarchy. Too many people with vested interests ain’t gonna let it happen. Particularly when you have the majority of the Press telling the public to be appalled at such a thought.March 10, 2021 at 1:39 pm #203332
I am by no means a monarchist, but I don’t think the appeal lies with the press telling people to like them. They are seen as British figureheads and a totem of our nation. People like the quaintness, the symbolism for Britain and benefits they are seen to bring through tourism.
I don’t particularly care, but the majority do see them as favourable compared to a republic, and I don’t think it’s because of the press. I don’t think most are ardent monarchists, but they aren’t itching for an overthrow and would rather there not be.March 10, 2021 at 3:52 pm #203335
“And here we have a pregnant MM, bullied by the right-wing press. But never mind her mental health, or her husband’s. The tabloid press know best, so everyone should shut up.
Well, so should you, BI, because if that isn’t contradictory, what is? You make a pathetic pretense of being pro-mental health, pro-feminism, and anti-racism, and yet your posts are rammed with bigotry, misogyny, sexism and racism.
It’s an astonishing contortion reaching new levels of hypocrisy and prejudice!”
I’m not going to get into a slanging match, Gurnelista. You might fool the usual suspects, slapping each other on the back with every comment you and they make, but you don’t fool anyone else. What’s very clear is that you have zero understanding of mental health, which might explain why you feel it’s OK to mock it so much. Except, of course, when it suits your own agenda to pretend otherwise.
There’s nothing wrong with Meghan Markle’s mental health. I can assure you that if there were she would not have been capable of conducting that interview. Suicidal thoughts aren’t that unusual among pregnant women, which obviously doesn’t make them any less awful but does mean that what Meghan went through was no different to how many women feel.
In addition, mental illness comes and goes. The simple fact is that if Meghan was in such a bad way Harry could and absolutely should have acted upon it at the time. Had Meghan been in a bad way mentally she would not have been able to hide it for long. Believe me, I know.
It’s exactly the same with the racist remark. This could and should have been dealt with at the time, by Harry, and trying to claim that royal aides prevented them from doing so is, quite frankly, just pathetic.
As for your final comment, it’s laughable. Given that you’re racist and mock mental illness I suppose the only option you have is to lash out at someone else by making absurd accusations and claims about them. As I say, it isn’t difficult to see straight through you.
One final point, about the press. They’re not nearly as powerful as you like to claim. The simple truth is, of course, that you cling to the notion that it’s all down to the media because you can’t accept people might actually choose to believe anything that doesn’t fit in with your own self-righteous agenda.
It’s the same with the monarchy. How could anyone believe it makes sense to keep such an outdated institution? So, of course, it’s all down to ‘vested interests’, the ‘right-wing media’ and those nasty Tories. What you can’t accept is that people aren’t quite as dumb as you like to believe they are. They know that the alternatives are far, far worse. Just look at Donald Trump. They also understand that the monarch has no real power yet the armed forces swear allegiance to them, not the politicians. People aren’t as stupid as you would like to believe.
BRI has summed it up very nicely.March 10, 2021 at 5:01 pm #203338
It isn’t all down to the media, vested interests and the Tories, but they play their part. Has anyone actually said ‘it’s all down to the media why we still have a powerful monarchy’?
I hadn’t realised how intelligent people are, like the number of vox poppers in the street, eager to give their views on something so important. I’d imagine they’ve spent a long time weighing up the alternatives. They’re so intelligent that’s probably why they voted Leave and for Boris. I’ve been wrong all along!March 10, 2021 at 5:36 pm #203341
The Press ‘telling people’ was an exaggeration on my part BRI, ‘very influential’ in how their readerships think is perhaps closer. Again, personally I’m not saying it’s ‘because of’ the Press but they are a big factor in shaping thoughts.March 10, 2021 at 7:38 pm #203346NorthumbironParticipantOffline
Registered On: January 3, 2014
People like the quaintness, the symbolism for Britain and benefits they are seen to bring through tourism.
Undoubtedly some of this is true, but the idea that the Monarchy earns it’s Civil List salary through what they bring in in the way of tourism isn’t necessarily the case.
The Forbidden City in Beijing brings in 17 million visitors a year despite China having had no Emperor for over a century.
Versailles – 10 million pa. The Winter Palace, St Petersburg – 5 million pa. The Potsdam Palaces – 3 million pa.
Windsor Castle – 1.6 million pa. The same as Stonehenge.
One could argue that visitor numbers would increase if the Monarchy became a thing of the past.
Don’t hold your breath though, people who attain power through privilege and not democratic means are tough little gits to unseat.
I’ll add two words to that – Land ownership.March 10, 2021 at 9:46 pm #203350
It’s not so much the quaintness Bri, it’s the idea of tradition. But I think if the facts become more widespread about how the country and its aristocracy made money – largely through state sponsored piracy and slavery – people will be less willing to romanticize it.
Preventing that is a ‘legacy’ media which is able to mount a powerful resistance to demand for change. They are still the filter through which many folk learn about what’s going on and how we should think about it, but not many media give people the facts and details to understand the truth, just as they didn’t with Brexit, or Markle, or nurses, teachers, unemployed people, foreigners, asylum seekers…… nor will they go after and expose their friends and allies in politics and business. As John Cleese commented recently, an ethical British press is an oxymoron.
And that seems to be even more likely with the advent of opinion-based (rather than fact based) media like GB News and other channels.
However, many young people don’t take the papers or listen to the news, but they are very open to social change which favours greater equality – particularly racial and female.
The question is, how to make it come about? Labour would need a radical manifesto to scrap the Lords, or make it gradually impotent, and that would require a huge majority. They can rely on the young, but perhaps not yet in the numbers needed. Maybe 4 years till the next election isn’t such a bad thing.
Oh, and elderly gammons like BI and their usual ploy of resistance through distraction/deflection/deviation, usually with insults? Just keep on topic, and never defend yourself to an idiot.March 11, 2021 at 3:32 pm #203371
“never defend yourself to an idiot.”
What was that you were saying about insults, Gurny? Yet again you just can’t help yourself, can you. What a sad man you are.
“…not many media give people the facts and details to understand the truth”
You can say that about anything, Gurny, from history books to social media. Everything involves interpretation and bias and the media are no different, whether to the right or to the left. In truth ‘The Guardian’ is no better than ‘The Daily Telegraph’ and the Beeb’s no better than GB News or LBC. You have to look through a lens every time you see or read anything.
As for ‘how to change the world’ into a ‘better place’, which for you means socialism, you talk as though it hasn’t been tried. In truth, of course, it’s been attempted on numerous occasions and has never worked; and before anyone comes out with ‘Scandinavian socialism’, let’s be very clear that these countries are not socialist. The best term I’ve come across to explain them is ‘cosy capitalist’.
What I find so disturbing about this thread is how some people are taking the Meghan and Harry interview as gospel when it’s anything but. The fact is that a lot of what was said will, at best, be biased and, at worst, just inaccurate or even incorrect. Here are two people feeling very aggrieved by how they were ‘treated’, yet many — including me — find it hard to accept that what they did was anything other than an exercise in pure vindictiveness.
One also has to question their motives. Of course it’s horrendous that Meghan had to put up with any form of racism, from any source, but in the real world it’s going to be there and tarring the entire Royal Family with the same brush was, again, pure vindictiveness. If Meghan and Harry truly want to address these and other matters then spilling the beans in a two hour ‘interview’ with Oprah Winfrey isn’t the way to do it. Unless, of course, your real motivation is how to attract as much attention and ultimately make as much money as possible.
Finally, just because someone disagrees with MM doesn’t automatically make them racist any more than voting for Brexit does; and suggesting otherwise is absurd. Yet that appears to be what some people are claiming. Likewise with how “the country and its aristocracy made money”. Other countries have been every bit as bad, if not worse. Spain, for instance, immediately comes to mind, especially with regard to state piracy and slavery. I wonder how you feel about that particular country?March 11, 2021 at 4:36 pm #203376
“The Guardian’ is no better than ‘The Daily Telegraph’”
YES IT IS!!
“You have to look through a lens every time you see or read anything”
What sort of claptrap and nonsense is that??March 11, 2021 at 4:38 pm #203377
“the Beeb’s no better than GB News or LBC.”
That’s demonstrably untrue, as GB News doesn’t exist yet and LBC is a conversation station with no degree of investigative journalism. The BBC has its issues, but it’s way beyond these ridiculous drama channels you get in the States (like Fox News) and state led propaganda crap like Press TV or RT. It’s about as balanced as they come.
Give me that over Daily Express or The Canary TV.March 11, 2021 at 5:32 pm #203379
He uses they are all as bad as each other arguments all the time as an avoidance tactic to refrain from having to make any specific criticism of those he supports.
Usually followed by a how many more times or what don’t you understand comment.
Totally predictable.March 11, 2021 at 7:55 pm #203382
Spain? It’s history is just as bad, even its recent history. But it has worked hard to come to terms with the Franco years and done much to expose and admit to its horrors which often involved neighbour shooting neighbour, and even brother shooting brother. Of course, the right tried to keep it quiet and make out it wasn’t so bad, but then the right always does.
Alas, you’re still committed to the far-right Bucksiron and posted in fulsome support for years and years. You’ve tied your scarf so tight it won’t come loose now.
As for the media, there’s no doubt the Sun, Mail and Express are Tory fanzines which print intentionally racist features. They pander to their readers’ prejudices, and have helped make them feel comfortable with racism.
And yet you make a pretense of being non-racist, pro-feminist, and pro-mental health, while sneering at woke, sneering at good pensions, cheering NHS cuts, defending the vampyric tabloids’ racism, and poo-pooing a pregnant woman who was racially abused and close to suicide! It doesn’t come any more repugnant than that.
Doing more contortions than an Olympic gymnast can’t be good for health either. And it’s peculiarly selfish and borderline sociopath for anyone to want to deny good pensions for each of our elderly, many of whom are women. But that’s what the Tory party’s become.March 11, 2021 at 11:56 pm #203391bartonscorpionParticipantOffline
Registered On: July 20, 2015
I fully back Piers Morgan on the whole issue, there is Markle sheepishly coming out with what she does best and then says Harry told me, Harry then states that he is not going to say any more about it. Markle is a proffessional actress and has shafted everyone except the Queen, in my opinion Harry and Markle are childish liars.
I am wondering why no questions were raised by Oprah regarding Markles own family that she has binned and blocked, and about the hundreds of millions that they now have, in their £40 million dwelling in the States ??
Although the BBC did have a Labour MP put us in the picture on the BBC News with Mrs Diana Abbot giving her views ha ha!.
It was a very poor action that Hrry and Mrkle took when they stabbed their family a the back with untruths, after making a forture out of the system, I for one hope that they never set foot in the UK ever again, they are not nice people.
Just my opinion guys.March 12, 2021 at 9:47 am #203397
Nice to hear your opinion BS, glad you got Diane Abbots name right, was it difficult?March 12, 2021 at 2:45 pm #203421
“That’s demonstrably untrue, as GB News doesn’t exist yet and LBC is a conversation station with no degree of investigative journalism.”
GB News hasn’t launched yet, BRI, but we know exactly what it’s going to be. Over and above this the point I was making is that if you actually study the media you’ll see that they’re all biased; and, yes, even the BBC. They all offer different types of service but that doesn’t alter the fact they’re all delivering news content of one form or another. As for ‘The Guardian’ being “better” than other media, no it isn’t. It’s also extremely biased, but in a way the usual suspects on here support.
There’s a huge amount of ‘media snobbery’ around publications such as ‘The Daily Mail’ and ‘The Sun’. As though people who read them aren’t worthy. In fact these media both have massive global audiences online, which is how people increasingly get their news and information. They’re also hugely popular not only in the UK but in many other countries, including those where English isn’t the first language and across a very broad range of audience.
All the comments above are doing is revealing people’s confirmation biases. There’s nothing remotely unusual about that because people are far more inclined to read or watch the media that supports their own view. But that doesn’t alter the plain fact that you have to read, watch or listen to any and every medium through the lens of what their bias is, political or otherwise.
Gurny, I’m entitled to my views and opinions every bit as much as you and your mates on here. I might not agree with your views and opinions but I respect your right to have them. The sad truth is that you appear full of hate for anyone who doesn’t agree with yours. You don’t know me at all yet you’ve compared me to Hitler and just about the only thing you haven’t accused me of is being an axe murderer. No doubt that will come in time.
In fact your accusations are baseless and, to use an expression loved by so many on here, a pack of lies. I don’t sneer at good pensions — good luck to those who have them is what I’ve actually said — but I very much question the dreadful inequality of them.
I’ve never cheered NHS cuts, but I have made it clear the NHS is poorly managed and must be open to criticism where necessary and appropriate. I’ve never defended any form of racism, in the tabloids or anywhere else. Indeed, I’ve made it very clear that any form of racism is unacceptable, including the Conservative party and find it very sad that you’re unable to say the same about anti-Semitism in the Labour party.
As for MM, your claim she was ‘close to suicide’ isn’t just untrue but belittles those people who are truly on the edge of killing themselves; and as for racist remarks, I made it very clear that no form of racism against her or anyone else is ever acceptable. Your comment about her mental health reveals your total ignorance or understanding of what mental illness really involves and coming from someone who openly mocks it, which you’ve done on numerous occasions, would be laughable except it isn’t remotely funny. What I have done and will continue to do is question MM’s motives for making the revelations she has in the circumstances she did.
People can make up their own minds about whether it’s me or, in fact, you, Gurny, who is truly repugnant.March 12, 2021 at 2:58 pm #203424
“your claim she was ‘close to suicide’ isn’t just untrue but belittles those people who are truly on the edge of killing themselves”
Posted as a fact so it’s a fair question to ask how do you know?
1 user thanked author for this post.March 12, 2021 at 3:04 pm #203425NorthumbironParticipantOffline
Registered On: January 3, 2014
GB News hasn’t launched yet, BRI, but we know exactly what it’s going to be.
Bloody Hell! Bucks is a time traveller!
Just been down the the petrol station with Mrs NI to fill up the Tigra.
Newspaper rack was stocked as follows: –
The Sun, Daily Mail, Daily Express, Daily Telegraph, Daily Mirror & Newcastle Journal.
So no Times, Guardian/Observer, Independent or i.
So no wonder much of the population have strange views on things.
As for MM, your claim she was ‘close to suicide’ isn’t just untrue but belittles those people who are truly on the edge of killing themselves
I don’t give a tupenny toss about the Royals but unless you’re Harry & Meghan’s butler how can you possibly know this is untrue! 🤔March 12, 2021 at 3:39 pm #203428
‘There’s a huge amount of ‘media snobbery’ around publications such as ‘The Daily Mail’ and ‘The Sun’. As though people who read them aren’t worthy. In fact these media both have massive global audiences online, which is how people increasingly get their news and information. They’re also hugely popular not only in the UK but in many other countries, including those where English isn’t the first language and across a very broad range of audience.’
It’s not ‘media snobbery’ to extremely dislike the general bigotry of either publication. You make it sound like they’re misunderstood. They’re not. They’re pretty deplorable in any set of circumstances. I’m not sure how much the rest of your claims about global audiences and huge populism in broad audiences in countries where English isn’t the first language is, but I’d be keen to know where this info is published to fact check it. And also, who is accessing it in those countries.March 12, 2021 at 4:39 pm #203431
Bucks is giving me the same amount of confidence that the Daily Mail isn’t racist as I got from Dan Hodges on Question Time last night.
The first word begins with an F and the second with an A.March 12, 2021 at 7:12 pm #203434
Where did I say that the BBC didn’t have a bias? I was intentionally careful with my language to say that the BBC was as balanced as it comes, because to say it was wholly balanced would be false. I realise that having no bias is impossible for any news channel. However, the BBC strives more than most to achieve a balance. This is more than what can be said for many rags like the Daily Mail. The BBC has bias, yet it is significantly more reliable than the Daily Mail, but more on that later.
No, we do not know what GB News’s reliability is yet. Therefore, it cannot be posited as an equal to BBC in reliability. We cannot say for definite that it will be worse either. We can suspect, but as it is positioning itself as The Daily Mail TV I have little trust in its reliable news coverage or investigative journalism credibility.
This is not to say that everything not left wing is inherently flawed. The Times is a decent newspaper. The Daily Mail may not be the greatest newspaper ever, but sometimes it delivers a story which cannot be dismissed. All do, but some to different degrees. I don’t agree with the general leftist tendency to dismiss any story from the Daily Mail as inherently wrong. However, it does have the tendency to be more inaccurate than most, so I tend to be sceptical when reading anything from it.
It’s not blinkered of me to distrust a newspaper rag just because it aligns with your ideological views. Your ideology is no more sacrosanct than others. I do not always trust left wing media. The Daily Mirror is a clickbait ridden rag which apes the worst of the likes of The Sun with a Labour slant. The Guardian’s coverage of Israel is appalling to say the least. The Indy has deteriorated to rubbish in the past decade.
But, as usual, anyone who is further left than Reagan gets cast as blinkered or looking through a distorted lens when this is discussed with you, seemingly.March 12, 2021 at 7:57 pm #203438
In which case I apologise, BRI. I should have taken more care to read your comment.
Deerey, these are newspapers we’re talking about, not ‘The Lady’. Fyi, dailymail.co.uk has a global monthly audience of over 300 million, with a monthly UK audience of over 30 million. That’s a lot of people who like deplorable and bigoted news across every political divide — just because you don’t doesn’t make you better than they are.
As for Meghan being “close to suicide”, given what came out in that “interview” the whole world would now be aware of it; and if she had been “close to suicide” what on earth was Harry doing not getting her any help at the time? Had my wife been in such a position I wouldn’t have let any number of royal aides stop me.March 12, 2021 at 10:12 pm #203445TwoWrightsParticipantOffline
Registered On: December 23, 2013
“your claim she was ‘close to suicide’ isn’t just untrue but belittles those people who are truly on the edge of killing themselves”
Posted as a fact so it’s a fair question to ask how do you know?
Do you really expect a cogent answer? 😅March 13, 2021 at 12:12 am #203447bartonscorpionParticipantOffline
Registered On: July 20, 2015
They are both playing for the public to support them, the more support they get and the more bad press for the Royals, the more money they will get, what is it since they dumpped their Royal status mear on £200 million and a $40 million dwelling, and they moaned at not having security provided by British tax payers to protect them in Canada and the States. they have lost the bloody plot, and please stay out of Britain the pair of you evil leeches.
Excuse me if leeches is spelt wrong Irom-awe, it is iether ee or ea. But I nearly did get Miss Abbots name wrong, but I thought it better not to.March 13, 2021 at 8:48 am #203449
I do agree that it’s a bit odd how may not have done anything, and it’s been pointed at the rest of the family to do more. If they didn’t then it’s wrong, but surely Harry has a responsibility too.March 13, 2021 at 10:24 am #203452
‘That’s a lot of people who like deplorable and bigoted news across every political divide — just because you don’t doesn’t make you better than they are.’
Yes it is, and yes, I’m afraid they do Bucks, otherwise they would stop reading it. And that includes family and friends of mine. I’m not saying that makes me better than them at all, but typically you use the opportunity to say I am. I’m saying in general they publish bigoted crap. And yes, I do pick up the Mail now and then to witness how many prominent negative stories there are about immigrants, benefits cheats, and general doubling down on minorities, plus the usual plethora of celebrity and Royals junk.
BRI, I don’t think there’s a leftist tendency to dismiss the likes of The Mail, I think there’s a healthy scepticism of it, and rightly so given it’s overall content and ownership. You mention The Times being a decent newspaper. What constitutes decent? Is it photoshopping a picture of a Toy Story character with Sunak’s face on it saying ‘to immunity and beyond’ and putting it on the front cover? This despite evidence that Eat out to Help Out contributed to a large rise in Covid infections? I wouldn’t call that decent, I’d say it was a cheap shot at gaining public approval for the government.March 13, 2021 at 11:51 am #203456
There’s scepticism, but then there’s just dismissal. Yes, The Daily Mail is often rubbish, but whenever people bring a story up people just dismiss it out of hand. This is regardless of merit. If someone quotes a story from there containing actual quotes from a Labour MP or whatever they just say it’s a smear and you can’t trust the Daily Mail. A lot of its investigative journalism may be very biased, it may have dodgy opinion pieces, but a story cannot be dismissed just because it’s in the Daily Mail. You have to delve into it first to see, but many don’t.
Nor do I think the Times is perfect, but it’s valuable to have a well written and articulate newspaper from a different position. Not all Times journalists will be decent, but it does have a track record for investigative journalism. It was The Times which broke the story regarding Johnson not attending COBRA meetings, after all.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.