January 11, 2021 at 9:37 am #200595
The title of this thread says it all. Dealing with the maladjusted is frustrating for everyone.January 11, 2021 at 9:42 am #200596Iron-aweParticipantOffline
Registered On: June 21, 2017
It’s all about opinions of course and once again I will state that lockdown has affected a great many people in different ways. Some get really strong, others just go with the flow and do their best without saying too much and others struggle mentally and are desperate for some kind of help. Buck’s overtime has changed unbelievably and I think it’s obvious he is struggling, he constantly changes his mind, contradicts himself and as a result his contribution to this board has become increasingly bizarre. Best ignore him whilst he finds his feet again, stay safe Buck’s.January 11, 2021 at 10:02 am #200597
Just like to add to the question about why you voted Leave (it’s not at all clear why) Bucks;
‘It’s called democracy. It’s up to you if you can’t respect that.’
That’s very inaccurate. I have respected it. As have all other Remainers. We haven’t tried to overturn the decision by violent means. We’ve argued through democratic channels, not out of spite (I’m sure we’ve all got better things to do), but because we’ve listened to, and heard, the arguments of experts and are genuinely concerned about the consequences.
You are unfairly tainting Remainers and making a mockery of the democratic process. I have said numerous times, I’ll be delighted to be proved wrong about my concerns. I take no pleasure in all these concerns becoming reality because I know who will be hit hardest. And it ain’t Boris and Co, the ERG, Farage, all their pals getting contracts, and all those super rich chums evading tax with their shyster accountants.January 11, 2021 at 10:07 am #200598
I-A, no one wishes ill will on Bucks. I know Heath and I have said it would be good if he didn’t buzz off again, but personally I don’t see any difference in his argument style or logic since lockdown. Pretty much Serie A Bucks!January 11, 2021 at 10:13 am #200599
I think if you’re going to play the game of ‘rile the lefty liberals’ then you have to accept they’re going to strongly disagree with you. It’s unfair to say you’re being bullied, abused etc, which has happened in the past and may happen again quite soon.January 11, 2021 at 10:50 am #200600
He comes on here asking for it, DM. Just look back at the evolution of this and other recent threads, where he aims to provoke those who haven’t even contributed!
But he has a condition, a complaint, an illness he can’t help, and this makes him very difficult to deal with.
More generally, and to get back to the OP, the willingness of some people to take seriously what they read on the web, particularly if it confirms their prejudices, has become one of the most astonishing features of Brit and American society in recent years. It has largely contributed to the rise of Trump, Farage and Brexit.
Social media and extremist websites have become the latest weapons in the armory of political propaganda, and people need to be made aware of it, particularly while the web is mostly unregulated.
If posters come on here merely to persuade the gullible, credulous and plain dim by presenting themselves as paragons of virtue due to their jobs, etc., or they use fake identities to spread their political dirt and lies more widely, they deserve to be challenged and lampooned, just as if they were ranting at Speaker’ Corner (anyone remember that?).
I can’t think of more than 2-3 who come on here to gaslight or push political propaganda for personal gain, and they they fully deserve to be exposed, pilloried and satirized.January 11, 2021 at 10:57 am #200601
There’s a very good doc about fake news here. If an hour’s too much, the ending sums it up very well.January 11, 2021 at 11:39 am #200605
Actually Bucks’s last post was better argued than his previous ones. However –
I strongly believe the UK will be better off economically now we’ve left the EU. The EU is a mess economically and we’re far better out of it
If my house was a mess I’d muck in with the rest of the family and do something about it. Get up on the roof to repair those loose slates. Get the spanner out and fix that leaking tap. I wouldn’t move out and take up residence in the camper van on the drive and kid myself that it was preferable to being in a proper house.
This is my beef with Brexiteers. They are bottlers, quitters and shirkers who instead of rolling up their sleeves to help make things work better run away home and lock the door.
We have now become the John McAttee of Europe. The team was performing badly so we sulk about putting in no effort then call our agent to get us a move.
What’s the betting we end up at Worksop Town rather than Sheffield Wednesday?January 11, 2021 at 12:08 pm #200607
Yep, I just don’t see how the UK can be the only country which can flourish outside of free trade agreements when every other country is pursuing freer trade. The EU has its issues, but the nature of freer trade agreements puts them in a stronger position than putting up barriers. This is acknowledged when Brexiters say that the UK is being harshly treated by the EU for having such barriers, but they don’t acknowledge the need for the EU to safeguard access to their markets. Tariffs and extra bureaucracy is an inevitability of any nation wanting to be outside if they want to continue trading, to ensure the market is not violated. There is no point having an agreed upon market with regulations, allowing freer trade, if a country who hasn’t agreed to the terms can access its benefits. So all talk of the EU bullying misses the point.
With such barriers I don’t see how we can economically benefit and such economic pressures on the EU is not immune to us. When the UK have fallen to the bottom of the G7 economic growth table, which includes EU nations, I don’t think we’re in a good position.
People are free to disagree, of course, but I just want this to be accepted as an earnestly held view which isn’t due to bitterness or unacceptance of Brexit. Brexit happened, but its effects are not beyond criticism in a democracy and when people are concerned about negativities it’s best to counteract them with reasons to suggest otherwise, not claims that they’re part of as left wing cabal out to undermine the will of the people, as if this is the Soviet Union where the ‘party line’ matters.January 11, 2021 at 1:13 pm #200609
The fact we now have the lowest growth rate of any of the G7 doesn’t even get a mention from Leavers. Boris and co should be taken to task by journalists on this.January 11, 2021 at 1:14 pm #200610
A feeble of excuse of ‘every country is suffering due to Covid’ won’t suffice either.January 11, 2021 at 1:57 pm #200615BucksironParticipantOffline
Registered On: December 24, 2013
Oh Lord, this this really is pathetic.
I gave up taking you seriously a long time ago, Gurnelista. As someone who has clinical depression I know a great deal about it from personal experience and from having a great consultant with whom I’ve had many conversations about the condition. It’s actually fascinating. The nonsense you come out with about “psychology” is laughable and the tricks you try to play are more suited to the kindergarten than real life. You are one very sad individual.
Everyone else is just ranting on in the same way that many remainers continue to do. I might not agree with TW about much but at least he’s honourable about the referendum result and determined to get on with things. The rest of you just can’t let it go. Even Sir Keir has said “he does not think there is a case for rejoining the EU, or ‘major renegotiation’ of the trading arrangements set out in Boris Johnson’s trade deal.”
What’s so ridiculous is how you’ve all suddenly become business experts and economics geniuses. Does it never occur to you why the only people you ever hear from on the media are those with a problem about Brexit? There are far, far more who accept what’s happened and are getting on with looking at how best to take advantages of the opportunities created.
In response to BRI I do wish he would read my comments. I’ve never claimed Brexit’s effects are beyond criticism and while I’m sure there must be some who do they are very few and far between.
The more the rants continue on here the more the similarities between Trump’s supporters and anti-Brexiteers become apparent. Not in terms of violence but in terms of some apparent miscarriage of justice, apparent influence from the media, Boris’s apparently mystical powers and the apparently dreadful world we’ve been left with. It’s just nonsense.January 11, 2021 at 2:22 pm #200617
You’ve never made out problems with Brexit are beyond criticism, but are sure quick to label or infer anyone who does so as duplicitous or bitter. Which is the problem and is evident by your last paragraph. You’re fine with criticism, but as soon as someone does it becomes ‘like Trump’ or ‘bitter.’ This is not accepting that people against you are valid and is precisely the problem. If you accept criticism, maybe lay off the insults and straw men at anyone who dares to disagree, eh? Maybe then you wouldn’t people irritated, eh? But, of course, Saint Bucks is perfect, so no self-introspection is necessary for the right wing Owen Jones.
Of course people want things to succeed, on the whole, I do. However, when things don’t look great and those with expertise (such as economists) say otherwise I am going to trust them over those who say otherwise, especially when things don’t look stunning.
It doesn’t take an economic genius or Einstein to see that the UK plummeting in economic growth since the referendum isn’t great and doesn’t serve us well.
As for Trump comparisons, I’d be careful. The claims that there would be no Irish border, we would never face tariffs, we wouldn’t leave the Single Market etc are very Trumpian and they didn’t come from Remainers, but from Brexiters.
But, of course, in Bucksland, it’s only the liberals who need to self-reflect, which is exactly the problem which has led to right wingers storm the Capitol. The right wing are beyond repute.
And I have never said the referendum was a miscarriage of justice, but who cares when you can smear your opponent as duplicitous? Bucksiron reminds me of Trump and should probably look in the mirror before casting judgement on others. He’s the eternal victim, but sees fit to slam others, misrepresent others and gaslight others as he pleases.
And if he doesn’t like this view, then tough, it’s my honest opinion formed from his own argument styles and continuous misrepresentations of others against him. I am not stooping to any level from refusing to be civil with someone who has acted in bad faith, in my eyes.January 11, 2021 at 2:33 pm #200618SideriteParticipantOffline
Registered On: December 12, 2014
Bucksiron does accept criticism is possible, but if someone criticises they’re just ranting on and should shut up if they know what’s good for ’em. :-)January 11, 2021 at 2:38 pm #200619
On a side note, I do wonder why we never hear views of these great opportunities from those wanting to get on with things which can be backed up? I’m sure it’s because of liberal agendas in the media, just as Trump, sorry Bucks, says.January 11, 2021 at 2:45 pm #200620Iron-aweParticipantOffline
Registered On: June 21, 2017
Well I don’t think your consultant could have been that great Buck’s, dear dear me whatever guff will appear next. All very sad but after 10 months of on and off lockdowns, entirely predictable. This bloody virus has a lot to answer for.January 11, 2021 at 2:53 pm #200621
There are far, far more who accept what’s happened and are getting on with looking at how best to take advantages of the opportunities created.
And we all know who’s going to take advantage, don’t we?
The vast majority of the UK’s population will not experience any “advantages”.
Surely the fact that it’s taken four and a half years and £200bn to end up in a worse situation than we were in 2016 must tell you something.January 11, 2021 at 2:55 pm #200622
I would be careful, IA, in making assumptions. I think you have sincere worries that he might be struggling with the pandemic, and there is a possibility you might be correct, but I don’t know enough about him to make any kind of definitive guess. I don’t think he’s lost his mind, as LBC host Maajid Nawaz has, for example. I don’t feel confident in making any assessments on his consultant either, because I don’t know him or her.
I just want Bucks to stop making out everyone who disagrees with him is duplicitous or tricksy, using Gollum’s language. The biggest case in this is that he uses the idea that there was a miscarriage of justice in 2016. Some remainers do think this, but I don’t think it’s a good argument and I don’t think the result should be declared null and void.
The use of such against everyone on here, which does include myself, shows the sheer disregard to what I mean, and is an example I have from why Bucks cannot accept others’ opinions. If he did he wouldn’t need to make straw men to make others discredited based on opinions they don’t hold.January 11, 2021 at 3:08 pm #200624SideriteParticipantOffline
Registered On: December 12, 2014
I think BRI and BI need to sit together and have a cuppa and sort this out like adults and maybe they realise they could reach an understanding and there’s no need for all this aggro. :-)January 11, 2021 at 3:26 pm #200628
The UK and the EU took years to sort things out so I wouldn’t hold my breath!January 11, 2021 at 3:56 pm #200634
Not qualified to comment on his mental health, but there is definitely a big hole in his benefits bucket.
Still waiting to read one, other than these mythical advantages that as NI points out will mainly go to those that don’t need them (e.g. 2% more fish!).January 11, 2021 at 4:03 pm #200637
And I see he’s back on his there’s only me who knows anything about economics horse again in his “real world”. He didn’t get where he is today by mixing with the likes of us, even if he did go to the same school as me.
Yet after lecturing us about debt and who is going to pay for all this debt and borrowing (where do they keep finding all this money), he has not mentioned his or anyone else’s grandchildren recently.
Seems to have completely slipped his mind.January 11, 2021 at 4:27 pm #200644
Lol, it’s CJ from Reggie Perin all over again. That whoopee cushion can’t be too far away!
‘There are far, far more who accept what’s happened and are getting on with looking at how best to take advantages of the opportunities created.’
Name the opportunities to take advantage of please Bucks. I know there are some, but who do they benefit? Let’s have a closer look shall we?January 11, 2021 at 4:30 pm #200646
Look, like my previous question which didn’t answer about your reasons for voting Leave, my question about opportunities above has no bitterness or malice attached. I’m holding out my palms here, please tell me what the opportunities are.January 11, 2021 at 4:54 pm #200648
He used to accuse us of being part o a secret society.
Nowhere near as secretive or exclusive as the Brexit Benfits Club. Don’t worry about the BBC initials, that acronym will soon be available once they’ve served the purpose of teaching the little kiddies during the pandemic.January 11, 2021 at 5:49 pm #200650
Ok, Bucks. I’ve had a think about it and I do apologise for reacting badly, calling names and making provocative comparisons myself.
I still feel you have been acting in bad faith yourself, and stand by my reasons to be irritated, but I cannot be bothered with reacting any more and I don’t think it’s fully justifiable to do so, even if I feel like you have been an arsehole, which I feel you have.
I think IA is right in that these times are tough, and I think I have taken it all too seriously. I do get fed up of being lumped in as a hive mind/left wing cabal, because I hold critical views of Brexit. I do not think it’s a good idea and I have only seen negatives so far, and do not believe we will get the sunlit uplands of new opportunities we are promised. I do not think this is unreasonable when I point out what I disagree with on here.
Nor do I think it’s fair to constantly try and lump remainers in with Trump for being critical of Brexit and not seeing it as a good idea. Ideally, I would like it to succeed, but I am very sceptical and do not believe it will be. This isn’t a positive for me, I am more in despair. I want the UK to succeed and do not believe it can with greater barriers to free trade. Yes, I thought a second referendum was positive at one point; whether it was wrong to is a source of debate, but it is not the same as what we have seen with Trump. It wasn’t because 2016 was illegitimate, it wasn’t, but because I felt that there was gridlock and we were heading to a dangerous situation. Therefore, I saw it as acceptable to ask the public again if they could change their minds through a referendum. Any attempts to rip up article 50 would have been a bad decision, as the Lib Dems found out.* This is a far cry from what Trump has said Trump has said he won the election really. I can see remain didn’t, as can many, bar some FBPE fanatics.
*Yes, I voted Lib Dem in 2019, but only because there was no-one else. I wasn’t voting for a Corbyn led Labour for my previous opposition to his anti-Semitism and how it had infected the party without complaint. My main issues with Labour which made them unsupportable were not Brexit related.
I do not have much complaint with Starmer’s policy right now. I don’t agree with it, but can understand the perilous position of Labour right now and he doesn’t want to rock the boat with voters by making it seem against the public. Polls suggest that most think Brexit is a bad idea, but I don’t think there’s an appetite at this moment in time for anything which would be perceived as rejoining the EU, even among sympathisers.
Anyway, I will leave it at that. Feel free to ignore my words and continue to straw man me, group me as a hive mind and make out I am a duplicitous so and so not interested in the truth, but I will just leave that as an advertisement to your own behaviour from now on. I won’t foolishly go along, as I have done, and make incendiary comments myself like comparing you to Trump. I hope you read what I have said and consider it for your own future correspondence, but like I say, if you don’t it will only be a reflection of your character in my eyes. It’s only a football board.January 11, 2021 at 8:20 pm #200666TwoWrightsParticipantOffline
Registered On: December 23, 2013
I think BRI and BI need to sit together and have a cuppa and sort this out like adults and maybe they realise they could reach an understanding and there’s no need for all this aggro. :-)
I’m of the opinion that if this were to happen they’d get along fairly well. I have friends with vastly different views on politics, and life, than myself but get along very well with them.January 11, 2021 at 9:04 pm #200667XxxParticipantOffline
Registered On: May 27, 2017
Let’s go round again just like a merry go round he said this you said that don’t you get fed up saying the same things may be not all of youJanuary 11, 2021 at 9:31 pm #200670
Flotsam’s come up for air from his Play Station again.January 11, 2021 at 10:10 pm #200671XxxParticipantOffline
Registered On: May 27, 2017
Are you on the horses or in the car on the roundabout you must look the part as you go round and round give everyone a wave don’t forget to comment the same thing again and again oh you do
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