January 21, 2021 at 8:47 pm #201456
Here are two pieces of propaganda. One from the Daily Mail, the other from someone’s Facebook page (he’s a Brit, but the post was made in America).
Both are absolute rubbish. But some will read them, and as a result, decide not to get vaccinated, endangering not only themselves, but the lives of all those around them, simply because the ‘information’ came from someone ‘like them’.
Up first, apparently a nurse claiming there’s no crisis, which inevitably excites the cockles of the credulous. ‘Here’s the proof’ ‘We’ve got it at last’, ‘It’s the holy grail!’ cries the Mail gleefully…..
But the Mail’s stirring up of popular discontent to flog newspapers is rebutted here.
Alas, the facts weren’t reported in the Mail, nor was there an apology.
And here is the third exhibit, from someone’s Facebook post:
“I have struggled to respect the diverse opinions regarding COVID-19 over these past months as all common sense appears to have been lost… however the ER nurse that posted this brilliantly sums up my thoughts and position on this perfectly.
“Anyone out there who can tell me what our end game is with the Covid 19?
What is the magic formula that is going to allow us to sound the all clear?
Is it zero cases?
The only way that will happen is if we just stop testing and stop reporting.
Is it a vaccine?
It took 25 years for a chicken pox vaccine to be developed.
The smallpox inoculation was discovered in 1796 the last known natural case was in 1977.
We have a flu vaccine that is only 40 to 60% effective and less than half of the US population choose to get one, and roughly 20,000 Americans will die of the flu or flu complications.
Oh, you’ll mandate it, like other vaccines are mandated in order to attend school, travel to some foreign countries, etc.
We already have a growing number of anti vaxxers refusing proven, tested, well known vaccines that have been administered for decades but aren’t necessarily safe!
Do you really think people will flock to get a fast tracked, quickly tested vaccine, whose long term side effects and overall efficiency’s are anyone’s best guess?
How long are we going to cancel and postpone and reconsider?
You aren’t doing in person school until second quarter?
What if November’s numbers are the same as August’s?
You moved football to spring?
What if next March is worse than this one was?
When do we decide quality of life outweighs the risks?
I understand Covid can be deadly or very dangerous for SOME people, but so are strawberries and so is shellfish.
We take risks multiple times a day without a second thought.
We know driving a car can be dangerous, we don’t leave it in the garage. Many speed and don’t wear seat belts.
We know the dangers of smoking, drinking and eating fried foods, we do it anyway.
Is hugging Grandma really more dangerous than rush hour on the freeway?
Is going out with friends after work more risky than 4 day old gas station sushi?
Or operating a chainsaw?
When and how did we so quickly lose our free will and give up our liberty?
Is there a waiver somewhere I can sign that says, “I understand the risks, but I choose a life with Hugs and Smiles, and the State Fair and go to Church and go hug my Mom in her retirement home?
I understand that there is a minuscule possibility I could die, but I will most likely end up feeling like crap for a few days.
I understand I could possibly pass it to someone else, if I’m not careful, but I can pass any virus onto someone else.
I’m struggling to see where or how this ends.
We either get busy living or we get busy dying.
When God decides it’s your time, you don’t get any mulligans, so I guess I would rather spend my time enjoying it and living in the moment and not worrying about what ifs and maybes, and I bet I’m not the only one.
(I copied this from someone else. Feel free to do the same.)…It would appear Common sense is no longer very common..!”
So, a confused, senseless ramble, full of misconceptions and falsehoods, which suggest a vaccine is pointless, and with this and the Mail piece, we see the full-on irresponsibility of those who seek to spread dangerous misinformation, from newspaper editors to the jonnies, and others like them.
The record-breaking infection and death rates are due in no small part to the spreaders of this kind of muck, this kind of weapons-grade, populist ignorance, who deserve to be challenged, satirised and called out. Perhaps some don’t know any better. But with others, there’s no excuse, as we’ve seen countless times on Bru with propaganda about Brexit and UKIP.
Pass it on to someone you know, OK.January 22, 2021 at 12:57 pm #201478
Thankfully the flu season has been eradicated by COVID-19.January 22, 2021 at 2:01 pm #201487
Fake news Bill. According to the BMJ Flu numbers are down this year. It hasn’t been eradicated. This reduction they put down to social distancing and other Covid related measures, like washing hands more often. Makes sense really. To say Covid has eradicated Flu is frankly, tosh:
Is JI around to slap my wrists for not agreeing with the view of an ‘other’?January 22, 2021 at 2:24 pm #201490
If social distancing ,not hugging,wearing masks has been put down to this reduction,why have we been so selfish since the Spanish flu of 1918 and not done all these things to help save lives like you say have been saved in the flu figures since COVID?January 22, 2021 at 3:42 pm #201491
I don’t know Bill, why don’t you tell us why everyone has been so selfish since the Spanish flu of 1918? Until you posted it, the question had never crossed my mind. Did Kaiser Bill have anything to do with it, or did the Martians land on earth?January 22, 2021 at 6:28 pm #201508
I think the answer to your question Bill is that most humans are pretty unhygienic when it comes to reducing transmissions of airborne viruses, including flu, common colds and noroviruses. This is despite medical experts telling us for years that we need to cough and sneeze into tissues and dispose of them and washing our hands more often, particularly after using the toilet.
Most viruses we encounter aren’t life threatening so we’re not being that selfish hugging and not wearing masks (though I believe gimp masks are still an essential item in some parts of Buckinghamshire). Flu obviously is, particularly with the clinically vulnerable and older people. So perhaps we have been selfish in this regard. Particularly in the work place, where colds and flu are easily spread in winter, it’s really annoying to notice someone not washing their hands after using the toilet, or wilfully coughing and sneezing, spreading aerosols over a wide area.January 22, 2021 at 7:01 pm #201511
But flu is a life threatening virus – look at the major flu outbreaks during the last century.We didn’t social distance,stop hugging or wear masks during those major outbreaks?
What has changed?
Maybe destroying the livelihoods of millions,thousands of cancers not being treated,suicides,the list goes on and on,homeless,starving families,the list goes on and on,any person under 60 with no underlying health problems having a greater chance of dying having a bath.
The COVID virus does certainly exist but the solution to the problem has been a disaster.January 22, 2021 at 7:13 pm #201513TwoWrightsParticipantOffline
Registered On: December 23, 2013
It could be argued that IF someone/something had created the heavens and the Earth, and everything in it, they have a lot to answer for. If I were omnipotent Covid would never have appeared. Hey ho.January 22, 2021 at 7:30 pm #201518BloodyRubbishIronParticipantOffline
Registered On: September 7, 2015
You do realise that cancers may go untreated because hospitals are at capacity? Remove lockdowns and hospitalisation for coronavirus would worsen, making cancer treatment harder, meaning more deaths from cancer. Remove lockdown and we won’t stop treating coronavirus patients, and nor should we.January 22, 2021 at 8:24 pm #201523XxxParticipantOffline
Registered On: May 27, 2017
I know you don’t like my input but if you don’t have the vaccine you really shouldn’t be giving it on here it’s the only way forward like it or not
1 user thanked author for this post.January 22, 2021 at 9:01 pm #201525
When we all get vaccinated will they say “ No more masks?”January 22, 2021 at 9:07 pm #201526XxxParticipantOffline
Registered On: May 27, 2017
Depends not if your not the lone ranger remember himJanuary 22, 2021 at 10:08 pm #201533
Ask a question – get a stupid reply.January 22, 2021 at 11:05 pm #201537
You should stop asking stupid questions then.January 22, 2021 at 11:44 pm #201540
When we all get vaccinated will they say “ No more masks?”
Would have thought so Bill. Well, not ‘no more masks’ but less restrictions. Hopefully though the whole Covid pandemic will serve as a wake up call about how volatile viruses spread and all of us being able to help reduce infections.
I don’t think I’ll ever understand what is so difficult about wearing a mask in public spaces during a pandemic, unless you have a good reason why you shouldn’t.January 23, 2021 at 10:52 am #201557
I don’t know if Bill’s scepticism / refusal has to do with religious instruction – some organizations are fine with immunisation, others aren’t because they go against God’s will (!), and a few like the Witnesses say you have to make up your own mind.
This reluctance to follow the official instruction has been said to bear comparison with the Blitz and the blackout of WWII, and how the so-called ‘Blitz spirit’ of everyone pulling together was really just propaganda, to counter widespread disobedience and looting.
And another link of interest…January 23, 2021 at 11:09 am #201558
“I don’t think I’ll ever understand what is so difficult about wearing a mask in public spaces during a pandemic,unless you have a good reason why you shouldn’t”
Maybe because the scientific studies ,which 3 scientific journals refused to publish until they were “ doctored” showed masks made no difference at all(the media didn’t splash the danish study on masks or the military study on masks over the front pages- I wonder why? Reasoned debate is crushed by the media and anyone with different views censored .Mass hysteria will not tolerate criticism of propaganda and governments flawed decisions .January 25, 2021 at 9:42 am #201672
“Maybe because the scientific studies ,which 3 scientific journals refused to publish until they were “ doctored” showed masks made no difference at all”
This is a perfect example of the problem. It’s fake news isn’t it Bill? We covered this on here last year. You directly misquoted from an article about the efficacy of masks saying they ‘made no difference at all’ when the article said nothing of the sort.
Thankfully there are people out there doing something to police the damaging and influential lies put out there:
JI, if you’re around to see this, this harks back to our chat the other day about views on this board and ‘otherness’. There’s some otherness that many people, not just those of us who post often, will find unacceptable and it’s therefore completely understandable and unsurprising that they are responded to in the way they are.
And similarly, the reason why I don’t agree with those like Bucks who say we need to listen to Trump supporters. Employment concerns yes, but employment will be on Biden’s agenda anyway, and mercifully international relations and climate change, amongst others.January 25, 2021 at 9:52 am #201673
That’s right DM.
And Bill, re. masks, it’s like if you look outside when it’s snowing, and assume that global warming is a myth! It isn’t so. You have to look at the overall trend in temperatures, and across countries too.
It’s the same with wearing a mask. Just because one mask wearer catches Covid, it doesn’t mean a mask is useless. You have to look at the overall efficacy of masks.
Take the military study you mention. Although there was a transmission rate of about 2% among mask-wearing soldiers who were living cheek-by-jowl with each other in the experiment, infection could be due to some soldiers thinking that wearing a mask was nonsense, so they took it off when nobody was looking!
Like with snow and global warming, you have to look at the overall trend in studies into the effectiveness of masks.
The Danish study you mention is very important here. Its findings were widely misinterpreted on Facebook and other sites, as this article points out at the beginning:
There was no ‘doctoring’ as you put it, and the research is widely available if you look for it.
There is a very real danger of people being fed disinformation, Bill. It can lead us to think something is safe or OK, like in the OP, when it certainly is not. It’s usually because some idiots enjoy confusing us, or it suits their agenda in some way. It’s also one reason why Britain has the worst death rates in the world. We need to be on our guard.
1 user thanked author for this post.January 25, 2021 at 10:39 am #201675NorthumbironParticipantOffline
Registered On: January 3, 2014
Some excellent posts above proving topics can be debated sensibly.
Before the pandemic I used to look on with bemusement at the Far Eastern students walking around the town wearing surgical masks. Not any more.
I’m still amazed at the number of blokes who use public lavatories and leave without washing their hands.
Hopefully the public will now be more aware of personal hygiene.January 25, 2021 at 1:44 pm #201680Lord KitchenerParticipantOffline
Registered On: December 24, 2013
Regardless of the reaction, I’m going to say this anyway.
Governments have been banging on about the ageing generations and the lower amounts of people not dying of what were once serious illnesses and diseases for some time now. The disparity between pensioners and those of a working age and the tax they pay getting wider.
By the end of this pandemic, one has to wonder how the population has been reduced. Somewhere between 5% and 10% would probably mark a significant reduction in benefits being paid by governments throughout the word.January 25, 2021 at 2:10 pm #201682
…”it’s fake news isn’t it Bill?”
Unfortunately it is NOT Deeryme66.
They were controlled scientific studies which would have been a bombshell .
TWO studies with the same conclusion,THREE top scientific journals refused to publish,but hey any objection to the truth is crushed by the media and powers that be.January 25, 2021 at 2:48 pm #201686NorthumbironParticipantOffline
Registered On: January 3, 2014
Somewhere between 5% and 10% would probably mark a significant reduction in benefits being paid by governments throughout the word.
The solution is more straightforward than that, it’s birth control.
Couples having just 1 or 2 children to get the population growth down to zero or even seeing a fall.
At least it would be straightforward if it wasn’t for religious groups going into Third World countries, taking away their contraceptives and demonising abortion.January 25, 2021 at 2:51 pm #201687
Fake news and conspiracy theories are under the microscope more for good reason. What do you mean ‘crushed by the media and powers that be’ anyway? Do you mean the media and powers that be across multiple nations and continents, all lying? In fact, virtually the whole world? If so, why are they doing it? Is some fiendish Bond character sat with a cat in his lap laughing away as his mask empire rolls the cash in?
LKs remarks are pure conspiracy theory aswell. Putting 2+2 together to make 5 – implying this has all been done by design to reduce an ageing population. Not in so many words but the implication is there. You could say the same thing about flu viruses, but no one does. And if I’ve misunderstood the implication then please elaborate LK. I don’t think there’ll be any wonder about how the population has been reduced-we’ll have the data. And of course a lot of older people will be included in that data. A consequence of that will no doubt be a savings on pensions. That is all. Anyone who says it’s any more calculated than that would be better off wondering about something else.January 25, 2021 at 5:20 pm #201695
Bill, you haven’t read the links I posted, have you?
You really want to believe what you read about ‘doctoring’ of studies, and a supposed suppression of the truth about masks, either because it came from a religious site, or because it confirms your gut feeling.
But it’s not true – and that could cost you your life, as well as the lives of those around you.January 27, 2021 at 10:32 am #201810
Very pertinent to the subject but also battles a number of posters have had with Bucks over the years….
1 user thanked author for this post.January 27, 2021 at 10:51 am #201817
It’s an excellent piece on the proliferation of bullshit in media of all kinds, and the danger it poses when fiction is given parity with fact.January 27, 2021 at 11:48 am #201824
Not being content with the damage done by Brexit, Andrew Bridgen from the “Common Sense” group wants to scrap the hate speech laws. Ms Patel supports this move.
The common sense group who want to end Covid restrictions and kill more than the current 120,000 Covid deaths.January 27, 2021 at 6:26 pm #201859
The trouble with common sense is that it ain’t very common – as Bridgen and co. amply demonstrate.January 28, 2021 at 11:41 am #201871
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